Mohammed Shami and Wriddhiman Saha ruled out of Chennai test. Should Rishabh Pant debut in place of PP ?

[G_B_]

Pappu is terrible with the gloves

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[express bowling]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Nair will still be there in reserves. If you remember Rahane's first test at Delhi. And Kohli and Rahane were already international players, still they struggled initially in tests.

Many of the best batsmen in the world have had poor starts to their test careers and many useless batsmen have had great starts, like Raina.

 

BUT

 

Karun Nair does not seem to have any interesting quality that makes him stand out as a batter who needs to be backed.  He fidgets a lot at  the crease, does not play very crisp strokes, does not come across as a technically excellent batter, does not seem to have that extra time against the quicks etc.

 

Someone like a Jayant Yadav, even during his first brief innings of 35, came across as someone to keep an eye on, as he was very steady, always watching the ball, going to the line of the ball to play and playing with a straight bat.

 

Seeing Pant bat against Mustafizur, in his short IPL innings, it gave us the impression that this guy has something extra....the way he wwas crisply hitting 140 k deliveries with ease and without fear.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by express bowling

[narenpande1]

33 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Many of the best batsmen in the world have had poor starts to their test careers and many useless batsmen have had great starts, like Raina.

 

BUT

 

Karun Nair does not seem to have any interesting quality that makes him stand out as a batter who needs to be backed.  He fidgets a lot in the crease, does not play very crisp strokes, does not come across as a technically excellent batter, does not seem to have that extra time against the quicks etc.

 

Someone like a Jayant Yadav, even during his first brief innings of 35, came across as someone to keep an eye on, as he was very steady, always watching the ball, going to the line of the ball to play and playing with a straight bat.

 

Seeing Pant bat against Mustafizur, in his short IPL innings, it gave us the impression that this guy has something extra....the way he wwas crisply hitting 140 k deliveries with ease and without fear.

 

 

 

 

Wonderful post !!! That is how great selectors pick talent.

[Mosher]

Shami getting sore in the knee is really bad news. He is our best bowler and needs to treated with utmost care. He should be rested for the ODI's too.

[WeStMiDz]

Surprising that people are already calling for Nair's head after a few balls of his international career. 

 

 

[sandeep]

Nair shouldn't be benched just yet.  

 

And on the OP question, it would have been great if Patel hadn't been drafted in already - I could see a case for Panth or another prospect in T5 with India up 3-0.  As it stands, even though Pappu is expectedly sub-par behind the stumps, it would be harsh to bench him at this point.

 

Before the series started, I was hoping for Kuldeep Yadav or Chahal to get a debut chance in a dead rubber test - but its not possible to bench JY after his ridiculously good performances.  And I don't see Ash being rested for a Chennai test - he's on record with his great love for playing in Chennai. 

[BeautifulGame]

Nair shouldn't be benched just yet.  

 

And on the OP question, it would have been great if Patel hadn't been drafted in already - I could see a case for Panth or another prospect in T5 with India up 3-0.  As it stands, even though Pappu is expectedly sub-par behind the stumps, it would be harsh to bench him at this point.

 

Before the series started, I was hoping for Kuldeep Yadav or Chahal to get a debut chance in a dead rubber test - but its not possible to bench JY after his ridiculously good performances.  And I don't see Ash being rested for a Chennai test - he's on record with his great love for playing in Chennai. 

Harsh? We aren't playing charity cricket.

It's time selectors what's they are paid for .

If Patel is not good enough to be long term option and not good enough currently either ,then persisting with him because it's unfair to him is absurd .

[sandeep]

Just now, BeautifulGame said:

Harsh? We aren't playing charity cricket.

It's time selectors what's they are paid for .

If Patel is not good enough to be long term option and not good enough currently either ,then persisting with him because it's unfair to him is absurd .

Not about charity.  Its about player management.  Selection process has to be seen as fair and consistent by the potential player pool.  Its not about Parthiv specifically.  If you start being overly ruthless then you risk player confidence, and for not just Parthiv - but any of the players in the team/squad who perceive that they are on the bubble will be under extra pressure and not in the best position to execute their skills to the fullest.  

 

You want the players that are selected to feel like they have the backing of the team and management, that they are not constantly on thin ice and will be thrown out as soon as they have a bad game or so.  At the same time, you don't want to carry an under-performing player too long either - its a tricky balance.  And one that our guys are getting right at the moment.  To be fair to the selectors and team management - they were quick on the trigger to yank Gambhir back from the team and squad, once Rahul got fit, and didn't go back to him even at Mohali.    Patel hasn't been great but he hasn't been poor enough to be yanked - that's in my opinion.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Karun Nair does not seem to have any interesting quality that makes him stand out as a batter who needs to be backed.  He fidgets a lot at  the crease, does not play very crisp strokes, does not come across as a technically excellent batter, does not seem to have that extra time against the quicks etc.

 

To each it own opinion

But to me nair looks a class player , he reminds me a lot of arvinda de silva. He is very highly rated by sourav ,dravid, kumble.  There is a certain beauty in his batting. With him he just needs to tighten his game like Rahul. 

To early to judge him......once he gains some confidence then he only he would be able to play the game his way

[BeautifulGame]

Not about charity.  Its about player management.  Selection process has to be seen as fair and consistent by the potential player pool.  Its not about Parthiv specifically.  If you start being overly ruthless then you risk player confidence, and for not just Parthiv - but any of the players in the team/squad who perceive that they are on the bubble will be under extra pressure and not in the best position to execute their skills to the fullest.  

 

You want the players that are selected to feel like they have the backing of the team and management, that they are not constantly on thin ice and will be thrown out as soon as they have a bad game or so.  At the same time, you don't want to carry an under-performing player too long either - its a tricky balance.  And one that our guys are getting right at the moment.  To be fair to the selectors and team management - they were quick on the trigger to yank Gambhir back from the team and squad, once Rahul got fit, and didn't go back to him even at Mohali.    Patel hasn't been great but he hasn't been poor enough to be yanked - that's in my opinion.  

That is fair in case of blooding young players .

But when you make a selection error like Parthiv , then it's far more important to correct it than being stubborn idiot and make it worse .

What happens when Parthiv fails in Chennai and Saha struggles in Australia series ?

We will be afraid of blooding a young wk in SA and will be stuck in no man's land because we wasted a glorious chance to give youngsters a go.

It is about having clarity .When giving youngsters a go yes give them a fair go .But when there is a selection error like Patel ,it's essential to correct asap.

Using the excuse giving enough chances when u know the inevitable is just cowardice from selectors to cover their incompetence

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

To each it own opinion

But to me nair looks a class player , he reminds me a lot of arvinda de silva. He is very highly rated by sourav ,dravid, kumble.  There is a certain beauty in his batting. With him he just needs to tighten his game like Rahul. 

To early to judge him......once he gains some confidence then he only he would be able to play the game his way

 

Lets hope you are right

 

I have watched him in Ranji Trophy,  A tour to Australia,  IPL and this test match...and always felt the same.

 

I am not basing my views on just this test match.

[Vijy]

45 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Nair shouldn't be benched just yet.  

 

And on the OP question, it would have been great if Patel hadn't been drafted in already - I could see a case for Panth or another prospect in T5 with India up 3-0.  As it stands, even though Pappu is expectedly sub-par behind the stumps, it would be harsh to bench him at this point.

 

Before the series started, I was hoping for Kuldeep Yadav or Chahal to get a debut chance in a dead rubber test - but its not possible to bench JY after his ridiculously good performances.  And I don't see Ash being rested for a Chennai test - he's on record with his great love for playing in Chennai. 

They could rest Jaddu then, and play Kuldeep - both are left-arm spinners with very contrasting styles. Kuldeep's batting has been good this season - Jayant can easily bat at 8, and Kuldeep at 9.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

That is fair in case of blooding young players .

But when you make a selection error like Parthiv , then it's far more important to correct it than being stubborn idiot and make it worse .

What happens when Parthiv fails in Chennai and Saha struggles in Australia series ?

We will be afraid of blooding a young wk in SA and will be stuck in no man's land because we wasted a glorious chance to give youngsters a go.

It is about having clarity .When giving youngsters a go yes give them a fair go .But when there is a selection error like Patel ,it's essential to correct asap.

Using the excuse giving enough chances when u know the inevitable is just cowardice from selectors to cover their incompetence

Sorry, but I disagree with your premise that selecting Parthiv was an error.  That's why you want to yank him first thing.  Patel's got his flaws, but he was the best avaialable option out of the options known at the time.    Now there may be the next great wicketkeeper for India out there, maybe this Saini fellow who apparently is batting well @ Lahli.  But there is no clear-cut contender knocking down the door.  And Pant-gasming over Rishabh Panth's batting achievements in his lone FC season aside, clearly the selectors feel that his keeping is not ready for international cricket.  so that's that.  

 

And however popular and feel-good, bashing the "incompetent selectors" theme may be, don't forget they are the ones who picked Jayant Yadav for this series while majority of ICF "pundits" were clamoring for Kuldeep Yadav etc.  Selectors also got KL Rahul into the international team at an early age.  Got to give credit where its due - maybe they are not as incompetent as you would like to believe.  

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

They could rest Jaddu then, and play Kuldeep - both are left-arm spinners with very contrasting styles. Kuldeep's batting has been good this season - Jayant can easily bat at 8, and Kuldeep at 9.

Vijy, Kuldeep is a chinamen bowler - so brings the ball into the right-hander primarily.  So all 3 spinners would be turning the ball same way - that is not a realistic option at all.

[Tibarn]

Maybe Rahul can get a chance in the middle order and Parthiv can open. Rahul plays middle order in Ranji correct?

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Vijy, Kuldeep is a chinamen bowler - so brings the ball into the right-hander primarily.  So all 3 spinners would be turning the ball same way - that is not a realistic option at all.

True. Mostly wishful thinking on my part. I'm a bit bored with seeing Ash-Jaddu all the freaking time - although it's fun when they demolish oppositions. Besides, we need wrist-spinners badly and they should be blooded at some point.

[sandeep]

^ Yeah.  It would be nice to rest Ashwin and still beat the Poms handily in T5.  Jadeja + Yadav + Kuldeep/Chahal/?  would be interesting to try out and probably enough to win.  But since its Chennai, that's unlikely to happen. 

[Vijy]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Lets hope you are right

 

I have watched him in Ranji Trophy,  A tour to Australia,  IPL and this test match...and always felt the same.

 

I am not basing my views on just this test match.

Yes, felt the same too.

[Vijy]

Just now, sandeep said:

^ Yeah.  It would be nice to rest Ashwin and still beat the Poms handily in T5.  Jadeja + Yadav + Kuldeep/Chahal/?  would be interesting to try out and probably enough to win.  But since its Chennai, that's unlikely to happen. 

That would be rather nice. Have a feeling Kuldeep would have done very well on this track for example.

[Riju23]

I have no idea about Rishabh Pant's keeping, and only have seen his batting briefly. He certainly looks an exciting batsman but I wouldn't want to throw him into the fray before he is ready. I do like the idea though of giving him a match in a low-pressure situation (i.e. with the series already decided) but he probably needs a little more time in domestic cricket. Maybe at the end of the Australia series (when we  are already up 3-0 )?