rahulrulezz Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, laaloo said: ^ Ishant is still useful as the 3rd seamer in tests as he can hold one end up and on his day can run through batting sides. Obviously that day doesnt come often. The problem is finding that 2nd seamer. I will disagree to that. Ishant played in all the away tours we had in England, Two tours to Australia, Newzealand on the greenest pitches possible and other than that bouncer cr@p at lords, he failed to perform or win us a test in the greeenest pitches possible.
Laaloo Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, rahulrulezz said: I will disagree to that. Ishant played in all the away tours we had in England, Two tours to Australia, Newzealand on the greenest pitches possible and other than that bouncer cr@p at lords, he failed to perform or win us a test in the greeenest pitches possible. He has improved recently. He can hold up a end. We cant have all seamers leaking runs. We need someone to hold up an end. Ishant provides that. Last 20 tests he has 63 wickets @ 30.93 with econ rate of 3.14. Shami 18 matches 59 wickets @ 34.45 with econ rate of 3.42 sandeep 1
BeautifulGame Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 I will disagree to that. Ishant played in all the away tours we had in England, Two tours to Australia, Newzealand on the greenest pitches possible and other than that bouncer cr@p at lords, he failed to perform or win us a test in the greeenest pitches possible. He was our bowler in Newzealand and took 6 wickets in the 1st of 2nd test when pitch was great .Ishant problem is when the wicket is flat.
rahulrulezz Posted January 16, 2017 Posted January 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, laaloo said: He has improved recently. He can hold up a end. We cant have all seamers leaking runs. We need someone to hold up an end. Ishant provides that. Last 20 tests he has 63 wickets @ 30.93 with econ rate of 3.14. Shami 18 matches 59 wickets @ 34.45 with econ rate of 3.42 I am actually surprised with the stats. But then you dig in those stats. Ishant stats are on mostly away tours on the greenest pitches possible and he still averages 30+. Give these conditions to Shami and he will create a havoc. For some reason, Ishant never gives me any confidence that he will take any wicket.
sandeep Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 On 1/16/2017 at 1:22 PM, rahulrulezz said: I am actually surprised with the stats. But then you dig in those stats. Ishant stats are on mostly away tours on the greenest pitches possible and he still averages 30+. Give these conditions to Shami and he will create a havoc. For some reason, Ishant never gives me any confidence that he will take any wicket. But we don't have 3 Shamis. Only one. Ishant is a capable 3rd seamer who struggles in the 'lead' seamer role. To be blunt, even Shami has not shown this yet - he's a very good bowler, our best pacer, but does not have Steyn-esque lead-dog performances yet. Ishant's previous failures and let-down of expectations aside - On an away tour, after Shami/Bhuvi/Yadav - he's the 4th best seamer available. Until someone else shows up and takes that spot from him, we have to get the most out of him, and he stays in the mix...
rahulrulezz Posted January 17, 2017 Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, sandeep said: But we don't have 3 Shamis. Only one. Ishant is a capable 3rd seamer who struggles in the 'lead' seamer role. To be blunt, even Shami has not shown this yet - he's a very good bowler, our best pacer, but does not have Steyn-esque lead-dog performances yet. Ishant's previous failures and let-down of expectations aside - On an away tour, after Shami/Bhuvi/Yadav - he's the 4th best seamer available. Until someone else shows up and takes that spot from him, we have to get the most out of him, and he stays in the mix... I agree with you about Ishant being the fourth choice after Shami, Umesh and Bhuvi. I don't think there is anyone better than Ishant available in domestics as the back up seamer. However, keep him far far away from T20s and ODIs
urnotserious Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 I think the OP should quit ICF for a while. And by while, I mean forever.
Cricketics Posted January 18, 2017 Author Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, urnotserious said: I think the OP should quit ICF for a while. And by while, I mean forever. Thank You. I did for a while. I just returned recently and I am better bowler now :) I think now Umesh needs to return back to his FC roots and Lista A roots and get back to where he belong and get better and return to ODI's. He can continue to play Test for India. As the thread says clearly "for a while", no one asking him to give up ODI. Fix and return. sandeep and Texan 2
rkt.india Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 On 1/16/2017 at 11:32 PM, rahulrulezz said: I will disagree to that. Ishant played in all the away tours we had in England, Two tours to Australia, Newzealand on the greenest pitches possible and other than that bouncer cr@p at lords, he failed to perform or win us a test in the greeenest pitches possible. Shami played on those same pitches too. At least Ishant had 2 fifers in NZ.
rkt.india Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 On 1/16/2017 at 11:52 PM, rahulrulezz said: I am actually surprised with the stats. But then you dig in those stats. Ishant stats are on mostly away tours on the greenest pitches possible and he still averages 30+. Give these conditions to Shami and he will create a havoc. For some reason, Ishant never gives me any confidence that he will take any wicket. Shami played on those green pitches too what are you talking about?
urnotserious Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 47 minutes ago, Cricketics said: Thank You. I did for a while. I just returned recently and I am better bowler now :) I think now Umesh needs to return back to his FC roots and Lista A roots and get back to where he belong and get better and return to OFI's. He can continue to play Test for India. As the thread says clearly "for a while", no one asking him to give up ODI. Fix and return. You clearly aren't a better bowler based on your topic. You need another 15 years. See ya!
gattaca Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Shami played on those same pitches too. At least Ishant had 2 fifers in NZ. That was first tour for shami. Ishant toured like 3 rd time I guess. Fast bowlers atleast 1-2 tours just to get the length right. Shami is more consistent with his lines now as well.
Cricketics Posted January 18, 2017 Author Posted January 18, 2017 41 minutes ago, urnotserious said: You clearly aren't a better bowler based on your topic. You need another 15 years. See ya! Get a helmet and come to DMV area.
rkt.india Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 53 minutes ago, gattaca said: That was first tour for shami. Ishant toured like 3 rd time I guess. Fast bowlers atleast 1-2 tours just to get the length right. Shami is more consistent with his lines now as well. Shami is still not as consistent as Ishant is. Those were Ishant's 2nd tours to England, NZ, SA.
express bowling Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 58 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Shami is still not as consistent as Ishant is. Shami is a much better test bowler after his return from injury..... can't really compare him with those tours. His accuracy, pace and bounce, everything has improved.
rkt.india Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, express bowling said: Shami is a much better test bowler after his return from injury..... can't really compare him with those tours. His accuracy, pace and bounce, everything has improved. He is yet to play overseas since his comeback. Was always good in India.
express bowling Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, rkt.india said: He is yet to play overseas since his comeback. Was always good in India. He has played in the West Indies. And.....I am talking about his improvement in bowling areas as well as bounce and pace.
rkt.india Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, express bowling said: He has played in the West Indies. And.....I am talking about his improvement in bowling areas as well as bounce and pace. And didn't do too great there.
express bowling Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, rkt.india said: And didn't do too great there. Shami averaged 25.8 with a SR of 50 in that series in WI....quite good I would say. More importantly, he was bowling consistently in good areas with pace, bounce and seam movement. Richards couldn't stop praising him seeing how well he was bowling. Said that his bowling was reminding him of Marshall and Lillee. Edited January 18, 2017 by express bowling Mosher and Laaloo 2
Cricketics Posted January 19, 2017 Author Posted January 19, 2017 Brilliant bowling from Bhuvi. This is how you do death bowling. You do not need crazy pace to have a good yorker. Kumar, Bhuvneshwar the complete bowler India needs in every game and in every format. Bowled well up front and now bowling well down in last overs. Look at the change of pace. SecondSlip, sscomp32, Texan and 2 others 5
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