Some MSD fans seem happy with an Indian loss

[Lord]

19 minutes ago, maniac said:

Ok very subjective analysis

 

Dhoni is not a top 5 in Tests because he is behind Sunny,Sachin,Kapil,Dravid,Kumble-any debate here?

 

Not a Top 5 in T20's-Kohli,Rohit,Yuvraj,Raina have a bigger upside than him in that format...hell even RP Singh and Irfan Pathan have won us more games in that format. Even if you make a case for him there that is only because a small body of work for Indian cricket in that format.

 

Now ODI's-Kapil,Sachin,Kohli,Yuvraj are ahead-Sure I will throw a bone here and may be he will qualify in the Top 5 in that format.

 

Now as a pure wicket keeper-I will give you this-He is the best ever when it comes to stumping I have ever seen no doubts but as a pure keeper alone he is no where the best,I have never seen him go for a catch that belongs to first slip or pull of a blinder against pace bowling...I highly doubt if he is one of the best pure keepers ever to play for India.

 

As a Test bat overseas-Ratra,Saha,V.Manjrekar etc as keepers have overseas 100's outside the SC....so keeping+batting overseas he is not up there.

 

As a Test bat in India-Sure he is the best among keepers.

 

You have to pick and chose and make specific criteria to make a case for MSD....sure overall I agree he will be in the X1 of All time Indian team but we are overstating him here in my opinion.

 

Very pure unbiased and subjective analysis

Has better overseas average than all of them.Whats this fascination for overseas tons?Even Engineer has none.Dhoni has an away ton in Pak though

 

V Manjrekar kept wickets in one match ffs

[Laaloo]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

Ok very subjective analysis

 

Dhoni is not a top 5 in Tests because he is behind Sunny,Sachin,Kapil,Dravid,Kumble-any debate here?

 

Not a Top 5 in T20's-Kohli,Rohit,Yuvraj,Raina have a bigger upside than him in that format...hell even RP Singh and Irfan Pathan have won us more games in that format. Even if you make a case for him there that is only because a small body of work for Indian cricket in that format.

 

Now ODI's-Kapil,Sachin,Kohli,Yuvraj are ahead-Sure I will throw a bone here and may be he will qualify in the Top 5 in that format.

 

Now as a pure wicket keeper-I will give you this-He is the best ever when it comes to stumping I have ever seen no doubts but as a pure keeper alone he is no where the best,I have never seen him go for a catch that belongs to first slip or pull of a blinder against pace bowling...I highly doubt if he is one of the best pure keepers ever to play for India.

 

As a Test bat overseas-Ratra,Saha,V.Manjrekar etc as keepers have overseas 100's outside the SC....so keeping+batting overseas he is not up there.

 

As a Test bat in India-Sure he is the best among keepers.

 

You have to pick and chose and make specific criteria to make a case for MSD....sure overall I agree he will be in the X1 of All time Indian team but we are overstating him here in my opinion.

 

Very pure unbiased and subjective analysis

Agreed. He is a top 5 in ODI undoubtedly and our best odi captain ever. I have no problem in admitting that even though I am a MSD 'hater' and a scumbag and a anti-national.

 

But as far as tests and t20s go, no way jose. He is a brilliant keeper to spin bowling but average or even below average against pace bowlers.  And t20s yep he hasn't played any substantial inning since that 2007 t20 WC. Well he did play that innings in the 3rd t20 against England but it took him over a decade to do it.

[rkt.india]

39 minutes ago, Viper said:

If Bhajji is ATG then Sreesanth is a living Legend

 

Everyone acts patriotic no one even qualifies to even join Army with big tummies they got  But they ll tell you how high to jump for extra pace

are you really that dumb or pretending to be dumb? Bhajji has 700 international wickets. He is our 2nd highest wicket taker in international cricket behind Kumble. Bhajji in his prime was a match winner.

[maniac]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil top 3 in ODIs?

Yes....Highest ODI score and most wickets in ODI's- in that era...obviously they were broken but sure Yes Kapil is top 3 material.

 

Also won WC at 24 years with a much weaker side than any WC captain against one of the strongest ODI side of all time.

[BeautifulGame]

Top 3? Kapil should be top of the list.Our greatest ever cricketer .

I wish some one does a movie of him .

[Laaloo]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

are you really that dumb or pretending to be dumb? Bhajji has 700 international wickets. He is our 2nd highest wicket taker in international cricket behind Kumble. Bhajji in his prime was a match winner.

Bhajji in his prime would have won us the match in pune

[putrevus]

Dhoni will walk into any Indian Team.He is the best wicket keeper India ever had and that makes gives guaranteed selection into any Indian team ODI, T20 and Test teams .

 

I have criticized Dhoni a lot for his stale captaincy and his performances with Bat especially overseas but never ever wanted him to lose any game.I can't think a reason why anyone wants India to lose just to make Kohli look bad.We are Indian cricket fans first .

Edited March 3, 2017 by putrevus

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

yes, Dhoni certainly is one of the top ODI cricketer, but here people are talking about overall top Indian cricketers, ODIs and Tests combined. He will be there in top 10 but not in top 5.

He becomes a must selection in every team like Kapil or Sachin. That alone makes him top five candidate.I cannot think of anyone else other than these three who will walk into every Indian team without even a discussion.

Edited March 3, 2017 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He becomes a must selection in every team like Kapil or Sachin. That alone makes him top five candidate.I cannot think of anyone else other than these three who will walk into every Indian team without even a discussion.

That does not make him top 5. He will make it because lack of options in terms of great wicket-keeper batsmen rather than him being great especially in test cricket. 

[King Tendulkar]

58 minutes ago, maniac said:

Ok very subjective analysis

 

Dhoni is not a top 5 in Tests because he is behind Sunny,Sachin,Kapil,Dravid,Kumble-any debate here?

 

Not a Top 5 in T20's-Kohli,Rohit,Yuvraj,Raina have a bigger upside than him in that format...hell even RP Singh and Irfan Pathan have won us more games in that format. Even if you make a case for him there that is only because a small body of work for Indian cricket in that format.

 

Now ODI's-Kapil,Sachin,Kohli,Yuvraj are ahead-Sure I will throw a bone here and may be he will qualify in the Top 5 in that format.

 

Now as a pure wicket keeper-I will give you this-He is the best ever when it comes to stumping I have ever seen no doubts but as a pure keeper alone he is no where the best,I have never seen him go for a catch that belongs to first slip or pull of a blinder against pace bowling...I highly doubt if he is one of the best pure keepers ever to play for India.

 

As a Test bat overseas-Ratra,Saha,V.Manjrekar etc as keepers have overseas 100's outside the SC....so keeping+batting overseas he is not up there.

 

As a Test bat in India-Sure he is the best among keepers.

 

You have to pick and chose and make specific criteria to make a case for MSD....sure overall I agree he will be in the X1 of All time Indian team but we are overstating him here in my opinion.

 

Very pure unbiased and subjective analysis

Fair assessment really 

[King Tendulkar]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He becomes a must selection in every team like Kapil or Sachin. That alone makes him top five candidate.I cannot think of anyone else other than these three who will walk into every Indian team without even a discussion.

all he needs is one player to be atg keeper like pant . Then suddenly will never make any all time team 

 

maybe even in 3 years time the position you summarise above will no longer apply 

[putrevus]

Just now, rkt.india said:

That does not make him top 5. He will make it because lack of options in terms of great wicket-keeper batsmen rather than him being great especially in test cricket. 

What are you talking about , he is the best wicket keeper by distance, he may not be Adam Gilchrist but he is best Indian WK.You select team based on positions and  there is no argument over Dhoni in any  Indian team. That definitely make him top 5 Indian cricketer.

[King Tendulkar]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

That does not make him top 5. He will make it because lack of options in terms of great wicket-keeper batsmen rather than him being great especially in test cricket. 

Exactly 

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

all he needs is one player to be atg keeper like pant . Then suddenly will never make any all time team 

 

maybe even in 3 years time the position you summarise above will no longer apply 

Till then Dhoni is numero uno.I bet he will be the first person to be happy if Pant ends better than him.

Edited March 3, 2017 by putrevus

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

That does not make him top 5. He will make it because lack of options in terms of great wicket-keeper batsmen rather than him being great especially in test cricket. 

Ponting won more matches than Gilly both as a player and as a captain but he did not make all time Australian test team.So who is better player Ponting or Gilly. 

[Lord]

10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

That does not make him top 5. He will make it because lack of options in terms of great wicket-keeper batsmen rather than him being great especially in test cricket. 

That can be said for Kumble bhajji or even Dev in Tests

 

 

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What are you talking about , he is the best wicket keeper by distance, he may not be Adam Gilchrist but he is best Indian WK.You select team based on positions and  there is no argument over Dhoni in any  Indian team. That definitely make him top 5 Indian cricketer.

best wicket keeper doesnt make him best cricketer or top 5 cricketer. He is top in ODIs, but not in tests and if you talk about top 5 Indian cricketers of all time, likes of SRT, Dravid, Gavaskar, Kapil and Kumble are ahead. Who would you replace him with out of these 5?

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Ponting won more matches than Gilly both as a player and as a captain but he did not make all time Australian test team.So who is better player Ponting or Gilly. 

we are not talking about making a team. He will definitely make it. talk here is about India's top 5 cricketer and whether Dhoni will make top 5 or not.

[BeautifulGame]

best wicket keeper doesnt make him best cricketer or top 5 cricketer. He is top in ODIs, but not in tests and if you talk about top 5 Indian cricketers of all time, likes of SRT, Dravid, Gavaskar, Kapil and Kumble are ahead. Who would you replace him with out of these 5?

 

That list is only for test cricket.

 

Not all time cricketers .

 

 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

best wicket keeper doesnt make him best cricketer or top 5 cricketer. He is top in ODIs, but not in tests and if you talk about top 5 Indian cricketers of all time, likes of SRT, Dravid, Gavaskar, Kapil and Kumble are ahead. Who would you replace him with out of these 5?

I would not have both Dravid and Gavaskar in my top five, they will not make all time odi team therefore eliminating them from top five players. Kumble makes top five but he had great competition from Bhajji in early 2000s and did not play WC finals .

 

Dhoni might not be best in any one skill or format but combined he becomes India's best and that makes him top 3. For Indian cricket's  Mount Rushmore Dhoni will be part of it.