Captain VK thinks we scored enough today

[Hell Raiser]

Just now, sandeep said:

I'm saying openers are more culpable for the eventual total.  Dhoni did what he could - not saying he did well - but not for a lack of trying.  This is what he is now.   He's not what he used to be.   But the openers are playing well below their capacity.   

Both Rohit and Dhawan have been playing like this for quite a while now. May be its the strategy of our team to preserve wickets at start and go berserk at the end. But this outdated strategy at the top and past their prime middle order batsmen are stopping us from getting above par and match winning totals on the board.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 minutes ago, CG said:

Again they had so many wickets in hand and Bhuvi or Bumrah were hammered by same batsman so they would have chased anything.

They may but you have to remember they had one guy out injured and Mathews wasn't fit either and was struggling to run. If you denied them boundaries they wouldn't have been able to convert 1s into 2s and the reqd rate would surely have gone up. Cricket is a funny game and you never know what can happen. We all saw what happened in IPL final recently. If Umesh had better control and not leaked boundaries it could've turned India's way but boundaries every over killed any chance we might have had.

[Sgattick10]

Young inexperience sri Lankan batters had better strike rate around 100+ then our so called heavy weights that tells a story ofcourse in chasing you're bound to hve that but still they batted more aggresssively then us. 

[BeautifulGame]

Ofcourse the runs were enough.

This was the highest score in the tournament so far.

 

It's the bowling that let us down horribly.

 

Only one who did decent was Bhuvi.

[Ultimate_Game]

Guys I still maintain that 321 against a not fully fit and inexperienced SL batting lineup should've been enough. We ended up losing coz we never tried to take wkts in the middle overs. I mean Umesh had 5 overs left at the death! My question - what for? Umesh should've been bowled out in the middle overs and he could've taken a wkt or two, or at the very least would've been a liability the way he was at the death.

 

This was similar to how Eng nearly chased 371 against us in the last odi series or how Mumbai won after being 10/4 while chasing 140 odd. Fact is Kohli makes weird bowling decisions and not bowling Umesh in the middle overs and saving him for the death was as inexplicable as they come.

[sandeep]

14 minutes ago, Hell Raiser said:

Both Rohit and Dhawan have been playing like this for quite a while now. May be its the strategy of our team to preserve wickets at start and go berserk at the end. But this outdated strategy at the top and past their prime middle order batsmen are stopping us from getting above par and match winning totals on the board.

Who's responsible for this outdated strategy?  I used to believe it was MS.  But VK has been ODI captain for a while now, and no change in this approach.   And today he doubled down on this nonsense.   At this point, you can't blame Dhoni anymore for the strategy choices.   

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Guys I still maintain that 321 against a not fully fit and inexperienced SL batting lineup should've been enough. We ended up losing coz we never tried to take wkts in the middle overs. I mean Umesh had 5 overs left at the death! My question - what for? Umesh should've been bowled out in the middle overs and he could've taken a wkt or two, or at the very least would've been a liability the way he was at the death.

 

This was similar to how Eng nearly chased 371 against us in the last odi series or how Mumbai won after being 10/4 while chasing 140 odd. Fact is Kohli makes weird bowling decisions and not bowling Umesh in the middle overs and saving him for the death was as inexplicable as they come.

VK's bowling changes and selection choices have definitely been questionable and sub-optimal.   No hiding that.  

[Hell Raiser]

Just now, sandeep said:

Who's responsible for this outdated strategy?  I used to believe it was MS.  But VK has been ODI captain for a while now, and no change in this approach.   And today he doubled down on this nonsense.   At this point, you can't blame Dhoni anymore for the strategy choices.   

Ofcourse its the captain and team management that is behind this strategy. But I do hope Virat realize his mistake and rectify it and not be as stubborn in his approach as the previous captain was.

[CG]

VK's bowling changes and selection choices have definitely been questionable and sub-optimal.   No hiding that.  

This is Virat second odi series.He will learn with time.

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, Hell Raiser said:

Ofcourse its the captain and team management that is behind this strategy. But I do hope Virat realize his mistake and rectify it and not be as stubborn in his approach as the previous captain was.

Clearly, this is not the first time we have lost an ODI game due to a sub-par first innings total.  And VK has been around the team for a while.

 

Maybe the self-serving approach for the top order is one that VK finds comfortable as a #3 batsman.  Or maybe as a batsman, he doesn't want to own the extra responsibility.  I don't want to be "that" type of fan, that lashes out at the team after a bad loss, and attribute motives to choices made by players based on speculation.   But because if its so bleedingly obvious to us as fans, I just can't understand why someone on the cutting edge of the game at the highest level, doesn't see it.  

[CG]

Clearly, this is not the first time we have lost an ODI game due to a sub-par first innings total.  And VK has been around the team for a while.

 

Maybe the self-serving approach for the top order is one that VK finds comfortable as a #3 batsman.  Or maybe as a batsman, he doesn't want to own the extra responsibility.  I don't want to be "that" type of fan, that lashes out at the team after a bad loss, and attribute motives to choices made by players based on speculation.   But because if its so bleedingly obvious to us as fans, I just can't understand why someone on the cutting edge of the game at the highest level, doesn't see it.  

Dhawan when assured of place will play at good strike rate and Rohit and anchor but rest have to be hitters the likes of yuvi is inconsistent and Dhoni can't hit from start.Unless we change the middle order we will have this problem.

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, CG said:

Dhawan when assured of place will play at good strike rate and Rohit and anchor but rest have to be hitters the likes of yuvi is inconsistent and Dhoni can't hit from start.Unless we change the middle order we will have this problem.

Its like a broken record.  I don't think its as much of a personnel issue, as much it is a strategic choice.   Sure Yuvi and Dhoni are aging declining players past their prime, but today's batting lineup is good enough to put up 350+ scores inspite of their flaws.   Its just that the team doesn't think its necessary to aim for 350.  They aim to make sure that we don't collapse for 240, aim for 300, and take whatever we get past 300 as enough.    Such a negative attitude is bound to bite you in the @ss, like it did today.    Problem is, we've been bitten in the same way, time and again, but the team has not shown any interest in changing its methods.   

 

[sandeep]

14 minutes ago, CG said:

This is Virat second odi series.He will learn with time.

Not with statements like "I think we had enough runs on the board".  

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

• Chalo he agress from next game we ll have to score 20-30 runs more 
• He may consider changing combinations 
• He didnt bowl yuvi due to breeze 

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

• Chalo he agress from next game we ll have to score 20-30 runs more 
• He may consider changing combinations 
• He didnt bowl yuvi due to breeze 

If there was breeze to doosre end se bowling karwa leta.

[King Tendulkar]

We had enough runs . Just bowling and fielding poor 

[Autonomous]

Umesh is like Wahab Riaz, Both have similar bowling stats. 

 

Shami would be a better option for India. 321 is a good score, Maybe 9-10 short. Also they may have under estimated the Sri Lankan team, They have some gun players but are not yet established/recognized at this level much.  

Edited June 8, 2017 by Autonomous

[kubrickian]

I think its obvious we should have scored more runs because in the middle overs, some of the bowling was very mediocre and yet batsmen played them as they were second coming of Muralitharan and Warne. Part timers like Gunathilake and Gunaratne bowled 11 overs and they went for 5 and 2 RPO respectively on a super flat pitch when there were 8 wickets in hand. That was a bizarre approach from the batsmen irrespective of the final total. There can be no excuses for such poor batting.

 

Umesh and Pandya are probably not suited for bowling on batting tracks. They tend to be more expensive in batting friendly conditions and are better suited when there is some help like a two paced pitch or some lateral movement. Bhuvi and Bumrah are probably the only all weather seamers in this lineup. Shami is another.

 

If we are going to be playing spinners in batting surfaces in Eng, Aus, SA, NZ  we cannot rely on Jadeja and Ashwin. Perhaps if wicket is sluggish or dry, then they could play but if wicket is really good, hard wicket we either need wrist spinners like Kuldeep Yadav, Yuzvendra Chahal or some other unorthodox spinner.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by kubrickian

[express bowling]

I think we lost because of our batting. This was a flat flat pitch and we should have scored 350+.

 

All our front-line quicks were decent on such a track. Going for some runs is par for the course on flat pitches.

 

Also, Bumrah and Bhuvi should have bowled in tandem in the last 8 overs.

[veer]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I think we lost because of our batting. This was a flat flat pitch and we should have scored 350+.

 

All our front-line quicks were decent on such a track. Going for some runs is par for the course on flat pitches.

 

Also, Bumrah and Bhuvi should have bowled in tandem in the last 8 overs.

Exactly.. our approach of go slow and accelerate late works in many situations but not all.. they gotta target 320 instead of 350.. and not sure why Kohli took very passive approach of himself and jadhav bowling when wicket fell.