G_B_ Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Vilander said: the point is if you are the person supporting imposition of a larger agglomeration of tribal's language on a smaller entity of statehood. How exactly are you in a position tell a smaller entity of statehood not to impose their language on a even smaller one? works both ways. If you are a person opposing hindi imposition and then go on to impose your own language in your state when there are historic linguistic minorities in your state, that makes you a hypocrite. Tibarn and zen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Vilander said: Hindi/Kannada/English are all official languages..there are 19 others as states within the union can recognize their own official languages. So best to learn Kannada before coming to Karnataka. or atleast English dont insist on Hindi, as you have an equal right to insist on Hindi as a local has on insisting Kannada. Everyone knows what is official. Gujarati, Bengali, Rajasthani, Punjabi, etc., are all equally important and official languages too The fact is that ppl in many states have made an effort to learn Hindi, which is one of the two official union govt languages, and use it as linga franca. The effort has been made to avoid learning Bengali when we go to Bengal, Gujarati when we go to Gujarat, and Kannada when we go to Kannada The idea of promoting Hindi is that one does not have to learn all the languages spoken in Ind. It is impractical. On the other hand, states can easily display the linga franca. There should be no problems in having signs in 3 languages, if not more The comparision of Hindi, a linga franca, and Kannada, one of many regional languages, is not apples to apples PS As has been pointed out, Karanataka itself has linguistic minorities on whom Kanada is probably shoved down their throats. Since you appear to support English, may be the first step in Karnataka should be to make English as the state's only official language. In that way, all regional languages including Kannada in Karnataka can be on equal footing as everyone would be using the "neutral" English, which was imposed on Ind by the British. Let's start by first having all signs in Karnataka in English only Edited July 23, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jusarrived Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 7 hours ago, G_B_ said: The point is if you are the person imposing your language. How exactly are you in a position tell a bigger entity not to impose their language? Goa has konkani as it's first language yet have never clamped down on Marathi Take namma metro. The station names were proper nouns which meant they were literally the same in Hindi and Marathi. Are you saying the Karnataka is denying the rights of the largest linguistic minority in the state? Don't the people of dakshina Karnataka realise there are speakers of other languages who have historically lived in the state for centuries in the north of the state? Where is the unity in diversity argument within the state? Plenty of RSS heads like Hegde hailed from this region. Narsimnha Rao was a fluent Marathi speaker. Karnataka and Telangana cannot do linguistic politics. They are just not linguistically homogenous enough. Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk I come from DK , technically not even a Kannadiga with tulu being my mother tongue , forget imposition its the other way around . if you stay in Mangalore for 2-3 years we will make sure you learn Tulu lol . I have Nepali friends we who can still understand Tulu . Kannada still has a special place , may be cos it was never forced upon us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jusarrived Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 hours ago, zen said: Everyone knows what is official. Gujarati, Bengali, Rajasthani, Punjabi, etc., are all equally important and official languages too The fact is that ppl in many states have made an effort to learn Hindi, which is one of the two official union govt languages, and use it as linga franca. The effort has been made to avoid learning Bengali when we go to Bengal, Gujarati when we go to Gujarat, and Kannada when we go to Kannada The idea of promoting Hindi is that one does not have to learn all the languages spoken in Ind. It is impractical. On the other hand, states can easily display the linga franca. There should be no problems in having signs in 3 languages, if not more The comparision of Hindi, a linga franca, and Kannada, one of many regional languages, is not apples to apples PS As has been pointed out, Karanataka itself has linguistic minorities on whom Kanada is probably shoved down their throats. Since you appear to support English, may be the first step in Karnataka should be to make English as the state's only official language. In that way, all regional languages including Kannada in Karnataka can be on equal footing as everyone would be using the "neutral" English, which was imposed on Ind by the British. Let's start by first having all signs in Karnataka in English only lol what rubbish . Two districts where you can claim Kannada is not majority , Coorg and Mangalore/DK . Even Kannadigas who make up more than 30% of the population speak in Tulu/coorgie rather than Kannada . Exactly how it should be and no wonder there is mutual respect for all languages . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, jusarrived said: lol what rubbish . Two districts where you can claim Kannada is not majority , Coorg and Mangalore/DK . Even Kannadigas who make up more than 30% of the population speak in Tulu/coorgie rather than Kannada . Exactly how it should be and no wonder there is mutual respect for all languages . The follow up question would be: Since Kannadigas respect Tulu/Coorgie in Mangalore, including speaking the language, are the sign below in Tulu/Coorgie in that area: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibarn Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Vilander said: its just a Dumb signboard right, why have it in Hindi ( a not special one of the official languages of the union), let them have it in Kannada and English..why should we care. I do think it's a dumb signboard, but it isn't me making it an issue. If someone is going to cry that a signboard using both official languages of the Indian government is Hindi imposition in Karnataka, then the onus is on them to say why it should be changed, or it is on them to drop the issue. If Karnataka is allowed to dictate which official government languages are allowed on infrastructure, based on the actions of a few people, then every state should be allowed to do the same no? The overall point is that the official languages of the central government are Hindi and English. Neither language is spoken by everyone in India, and many people in India speak neither, but, as they are both official languages, any official government communications should have both on them on it. Otherwise, if you don't think they should have both, then every state should be allowed to pick which official language is allowed on infrastructure in the state. Do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, Tibarn said: I do think it's a dumb signboard, but it isn't me making it an issue. If someone is going to cry that a signboard using both official languages of the Indian government is Hindi imposition in Karnataka, then the onus is on them to say why it should be changed, or it is on them to drop the issue. If Karnataka is allowed to dictate which official government languages are allowed on infrastructure, based on the actions of a few people, then every state should be allowed to do the same no? The overall point is that the official languages of the central government are Hindi and English. Neither language is spoken by everyone in India, and many people in India speak neither, but, as they are both official languages, any official government communications should have both on them on it. Otherwise, if you don't think they should have both, then every state should be allowed to pick which official language is allowed on infrastructure in the state. Do you disagree? Official comunication should be in English and one of the other official langages. In BIMARU it can be Hindi, in other states it should be based on their preference,Hindi should not be imposed. Do you agree ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 8 hours ago, nikred said: Not much of a problem here in Telangana. For a dialect with decent influence of urdu, we are not bothered I guess about "imposition" of hindi in our state. But if an average north Indian living in Telangana expects everyone to converse with them in hindi deserve a smack under their ear to get them back to reality. Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk how dare you consider your regional languge to be on par with worlds greatest language, the gift of mankind and anglekind and pigkind alike Hindi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jusarrived Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, zen said: The follow up question would be: Since Kannadigas respect Tulu/Coorgie in Mangalore, including speaking the language, are the sign below in Tulu/Coorgie in that area: Thoda research karne ka na yaar . Those sign boards could be coorgie , tulu or Kannada , cos all of them use the same script ;) The second one you posted is actually Malyalam and thats not Karnataka , but kerala :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibarn Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vilander said: Official comunication should be in English and one of the other official langages. In BIMARU it can be Hindi, in other states it should be based on their preference,Hindi should not be imposed. Do you agree ? There are only 2 official languages in India for communication by the central government: Hindi and English. Gujarati, Tamil, Marathi, et al are not official central government languages for communication. The latter languages are also official languages, but only in terms of they have equal status in importance as Hindi/English. They aren't used for communication by the central government, although state governments can choose them as official languages for communication within the state on state government communications. Thus if we look at the signboards in question, they have Kannada, English, and Hindi on them. The Kannada language is the official language of the Karnataka government, and English/Hindi, are the two languages designated by the center for communication. If Karnataka is allowed to use their official state language and pick only 1 of 2 languages of the Center, then the equivalent would be, say Punjab, where they can communicate on signs with Punjabi and choose either English or Hindi, I don't mind that. There just has to be a consistent standard across states. My state, Gujarat, can't be required to have both Hindi and English on every signboard, but Karnataka gets a choice on which official languages they get on signboards. Edited July 23, 2017 by Tibarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, jusarrived said: Thoda research karne ka na yaar . Those sign boards could be coorgie , tulu or Kannada , cos all of them use the same script ;) The second one you posted is actually Malyalam and thats not Karnataka , but kerala :) Having the same (or similar?) script does not tell me much. For e.g. Boot in German means boat, while wand means wall Anyways, from wiki: a) Kannada in Karnataka Kannada is the official language of Karnataka and spoken as a native language by about 66.26% of the people as of 2001. Other linguistic minorities in the state were Urdu (10.54%), Telugu (7.03%), Tamil (3.57%), Marathi (3.6%), Tulu (3.0%), Hindi (2.56%), Konkani (1.46%), Malayalam (1.33%) and Kodava Takk (0.3%).[54] b) Hindi in Ind Much like Kannada is seen as linga frana in Karnataka, Hindi is seen as linga franca in Ind Edited July 23, 2017 by zen mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) Demand for Tulu Land in Karnataka http://www.deccanherald.com/content/578876/demand-tulu-state-gets-louder.html "Demanding separate Tulu statehood, members of various organisations unfurled the Tulu Nadu flag on Karnataka Rajyotsava at several places in Uppinangady. The red colour flag with the sun and the moon on it was unfurled." Edited July 23, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 signboard is a minor issue in front of a major boiling point. If we have some regulation on jobs for local people ..reqs like knowing gibberishdi is a must ..and messages for immgrants to learn kannada to communicate with locals, I think we can leave politicians behind and resolve issues like signboards. I would rather have 7 or 8 lang signboards..kannada, urdu, telugu, marathi, tamil, tulu and Bhindi. in order of percentages of ppl speaking these langs. No condescending sermons like knowing hindi will unite India and make it a patriotic thing, no thanks, we can feel India through a local lens. Vilander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Strictly speaking flag, I don't have a problem with that. Actually all Indian states should have their own flags. Most states have their own "days" as such. Maharashtra Day, Telangana Day, etc. Flag could come in handy as a symbol of state pride. Now, coming to this uber long discussion on the Hindi language and so called "imposition" of this language, here's what I don't get. Maharashtra has Marathi as its native languages, Maharashtrians are proud of their language and their heritage, yet they have accepted Hindi as the national language and are happy to have it as the 3rd language that enables communication with majority of Indians. Ditto for Gujarat, West Bengal, Rajasthan, Punjab and all states except for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Why do these states consider Hindi as some kind of "threat" to their language? You believe your language heritage is so poor that Hindi will overshadow your native language? All other states happily accept both their native language as well as the national language, then what is wrong with these two states? The thing is - this is nothing but petty politics to overshadow more real issues that the governments of these states can't solve and hence, they try to influence their voters by bringing about this divide. So, keep feeding your politicians and they will keep telling you about how Hindi "imposition" is bad for you. Fact is that many Tamils and Kannadigas also work outside their states in other Indian states and benefit from a common connect with other Indians who know Hindi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rageaddict Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, Texan said: Strictly speaking flag, I don't have a problem with that. Actually all Indian states should have their own flags. Most states have their own "days" as such. Maharashtra Day, Telangana Day, etc. Flag could come in handy as a symbol of state pride. Now, coming to this uber long discussion on the Hindi language and so called "imposition" of this language, here's what I don't get. Maharashtra has Marathi as its native languages, Maharashtrians are proud of their language and their heritage, yet they have accepted Hindi as the national language and are happy to have it as the 3rd language that enables communication with majority of Indians. Ditto for Gujarat, West Bengal, Rajasthan, Punjab and all states except for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Why do these states consider Hindi as some kind of "threat" to their language? You believe your language heritage is so poor that Hindi will overshadow your native language? All other states happily accept both their native language as well as the national language, then what is wrong with these two states? The thing is - this is nothing but petty politics to overshadow more real issues that the governments of these states can't solve and hence, they try to influence their voters by bringing about this divide. So, keep feeding your politicians and they will keep telling you about how Hindi "imposition" is bad for you. Fact is that many Tamils and Kannadigas also work outside their states in other Indian states and benefit from a common connect with other Indians who know Hindi. Agree, just goes to show how insecure these people are. Cosmopolitan cities are supposed to be melting pot of different cultures and not a monopoly of anyone. Mumbai is one such place which is far ahead of these newly emerging semi - developed cities like Bangalore who are having their first taste of mass -migration and cultural changes. The locals in Mumbai don't feel insecure over why the Biharis, Gujratis, Punjabi's and South Indians aren't communicating in their Superior Marathi Language. The migrants are not under any obligation to preserve the legacy and dominance of Marathi from fading away. It's absolutely normal to have no knowledge of Marathi and survive in the city for decades without any issue. These people want to have the best of both worlds, they expect their cities to be World Class ( Which will obviously attract migrants from other states ) and at the same time expect to maintain their cultural supremacy over the region like it used to be 500 years ago . That's simply impossible and unacceptable. Also, its very fashionable to play the victim card over Secularism, Religious Discrimination , Casteism these days, Hindi imposition is the latest fad. Some of these folks are no different to the Mullahs who get all charged up over the " Islam Khatre main hai " rhetoric and suffer from paranoia about how there is a conspiracy against them. All said and done, the Politician's and the Indian Union doesn't even have to rely on some lame signboards to " impose " Hindi . The Widespread influence of Hindi in Films, Media and the fact that around 60 % of the Indian Population can speak / read in Hindi will make sure that the language continues to grow. Change might be painful but inevitable in the case . I feel sorry for the guys who think there their empty threats and useless rhetoric will lead to conservation of their culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Texan said: Strictly speaking flag, I don't have a problem with that. Actually all Indian states should have their own flags. Most states have their own "days" as such. Maharashtra Day, Telangana Day, etc. Flag could come in handy as a symbol of state pride. Now, coming to this uber long discussion on the Hindi language and so called "imposition" of this language, here's what I don't get. Maharashtra has Marathi as its native languages, Maharashtrians are proud of their language and their heritage, yet they have accepted Hindi as the national language and are happy to have it as the 3rd language that enables communication with majority of Indians. Ditto for Gujarat, West Bengal, Rajasthan, Punjab and all states except for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Why do these states consider Hindi as some kind of "threat" to their language? You believe your language heritage is so poor that Hindi will overshadow your native language? All other states happily accept both their native language as well as the national language, then what is wrong with these two states? The thing is - this is nothing but petty politics to overshadow more real issues that the governments of these states can't solve and hence, they try to influence their voters by bringing about this divide. So, keep feeding your politicians and they will keep telling you about how Hindi "imposition" is bad for you. Fact is that many Tamils and Kannadigas also work outside their states in other Indian states and benefit from a common connect with other Indians who know Hindi. Script. Your language uses Hindi devanagari script right. South Indian languages use vattaezhuthu script. Accept differences and don't create unnecessary differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Nothing is inevitable about Hindi in South India, it won't happen. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 14 hours ago, Tibarn said: There are only 2 official languages in India for communication by the central government: Hindi and English. Gujarati, Tamil, Marathi, et al are not official central government languages for communication. The latter languages are also official languages, but only in terms of they have equal status in importance as Hindi/English. They aren't used for communication by the central government, although state governments can choose them as official languages for communication within the state on state government communications. Thus if we look at the signboards in question, they have Kannada, English, and Hindi on them. The Kannada language is the official language of the Karnataka government, and English/Hindi, are the two languages designated by the center for communication. If Karnataka is allowed to use their official state language and pick only 1 of 2 languages of the Center, then the equivalent would be, say Punjab, where they can communicate on signs with Punjabi and choose either English or Hindi, I don't mind that. There just has to be a consistent standard across states. My state, Gujarat, can't be required to have both Hindi and English on every signboard, but Karnataka gets a choice on which official languages they get on signboards. Yup English is official and then a local language. Hindi is for use in bimaru. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 @zen You keep saying Hindi is the linga franca. Freudian Slip? Why does India need a lingua franca? We have done well so far without one. I'm no expert on history, but the two states that I remember that tried to force/forced a dominant language on others were fragmented. Pakistan when it tried to impose Urdu on Bangladesh. And the USSR imposed Russians in all areas of the Soviet Union. While language may not be the only reason in the fragmentation of these nations, it did add to the local resentment. PS: As an aside, how many of you who want to have Hindi as the lingua franca even read Hindi newspapers/contemporary literature/novels etc? Book_Worm and Vilander 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 13 hours ago, zen said: Terrible flag. Sorry @ Tulu people, but if you want us to take your demands for statehood seriously, please come up with a better flag. asterix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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