Strength to Strength comparison of India vs South Africa

[Vilander]

46 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I hadn't looked at the scorecards, but that just shows you that there is no reason to assume that the SA batting is going to put up big scores on us.   

The one variant is ofcourse ABDV he is a guy who could turn up and if Steyn turns up..yeah thats always the possibility. Out side of series defining highs from these guys which is improbable it will be a good contest.

[sandeep]

44 minutes ago, Vilander said:

The one variant is ofcourse ABDV he is a guy who could turn up and if Steyn turns up..yeah thats always the possibility. Out side of series defining highs from these guys which is improbable it will be a good contest.

If Steyn and AB can walk in from the wilderness and deliver at high levels, so can a Shami, or a Rahane.   Too bad the series is a month away.   

[mishra]

8 hours ago, sandeep said:

If Steyn and AB can walk in from the wilderness and deliver at high levels, so can a Shami, or a Rahane.   Too bad the series is a month away.   

Comparing Steyn and Rahane at home vs Shami and Rahane away. Bhai! Good that you are high but I think its too much Spirit.

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

Comparing Steyn and Rahane at home vs Shami and Rahane away. Bhai! Good that you are high but I think its too much Spirit.

Bhai, Steyn is yet to bowl even 10 overs in a FC game after a complete break in his shoulder bone.  He is an amazing bowler and an ATG, but its not easy for anyone to just come in and start playing test cricket at a high level.   All I'm saying is that if he has a chance to just walk into test cricket and deliver a big performance, then so does Shami.   Not saying that Shami is anywhere near as good as Steyn at his best.  

 

Same thing with Rahane and AB - AB is a ridiculous hitter of the white ball, and a very good test player.  But Rahane is also a high quality test batsman.   And AB has been sitting out for a long time.  You are underestimating the impact of rust, and pure physical fitness requirements of playing test cricket.  And AB is no spring chicken either.  

 

Of course, these guys are top shelf players, playing in home conditions, and its possible they will come good - but there is absolutely no reason to assume that they will.  

[maniac]

3 hours ago, mishra said:

Comparing Steyn and Rahane at home vs Shami and Rahane away. Bhai! Good that you are high but I think its too much Spirit.

His spirit is super contagious...I have caught the bug too...we are going to roll South Africa for less than 100 every time we bowl and going to smash 700+ every time we get to bat

 

All the white South Africans will board the flight to England and South Africa will become the new Zimbabwe from this trauma.

 

There you go that brings me on the same page as him.

 

[maniac]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Bhai, Steyn is yet to bowl even 10 overs in a FC game after a complete break in his shoulder bone.  He is an amazing bowler and an ATG, but its not easy for anyone to just come in and start playing test cricket at a high level.   All I'm saying is that if he has a chance to just walk into test cricket and deliver a big performance, then so does Shami.   Not saying that Shami is anywhere near as good as Steyn at his best.  

 

Same thing with Rahane and AB - AB is a ridiculous hitter of the white ball, and a very good test player.  But Rahane is also a high quality test batsman.   And AB has been sitting out for a long time.  You are underestimating the impact of rust, and pure physical fitness requirements of playing test cricket.  And AB is no spring chicken either.  

 

Of course, these guys are top shelf players, playing in home conditions, and its possible they will come good - but there is absolutely no reason to assume that they will.  

Wait!!! you find the thought of people assuming legendary proven performers delivering in their home conditions to be more ridiculous

 

than the

 

assumption that a team that are traditionally poor travelers and have quiet a few weakness like inconsistencies in batting and bowling and terrible catching will go and absolutely smash the opposition on their home turf.

 

 amazing!!!

Edited December 1, 2017 by maniac

[Vilander]

12 hours ago, sandeep said:

If Steyn and AB can walk in from the wilderness and deliver at high levels, so can a Shami, or a Rahane.   Too bad the series is a month away.   

The point is if that happens however improbable it is, if that happens we are done.

[Vilander]

But i dont think its going to happen, atleast not both of them... in the same game...in the same innings ( yeah thats for sure)

[sandeep]

33 minutes ago, maniac said:

Wait!!! you find the thought of people assuming legendary proven performers delivering in their home conditions to be more ridiculous

 

than the

 

assumption that a team that are traditionally poor travelers and have quiet a few weakness like inconsistencies in batting and bowling and terrible catching will go and absolutely smash the opposition on their home turf.

 

 amazing!!!

Yes, I find the probabilities for Steyn just turning up and taking a 5-fer at this point in time against India, given that he is yet to play anything other than a T20, about the same as a M Shami or Bhuvi taking a 5-fer.  You are overly focused on the past history.  Evaluate the players as they are now.  How have Shami and Bhuvi been bowling in the last 5-7 tests they have played?  Bhuvi even has ridiculuously good stats to back this up.   

 

You can keep quaking in your boots, and keep fixating on past history - but my take on the Ind-SA series is that its going to be a contest between 2 close to evenly matched teams, even after accounting for home conditions, and India have a slight edge due to their more experienced and settled team line-up.   I back our top 5 to out-bat the South Africans, and I'm expecting our bowlers to deliver.   I'm not guaranteeing that this will happen, but I feel the odds are pretty good.  

 

I don't need to convince you of this.  We can agree to disagree.   

[sandeep]

48 minutes ago, maniac said:

His spirit is super contagious...I have caught the bug too...we are going to roll South Africa for less than 100 every time we bowl and going to smash 700+ every time we get to bat

 

All the white South Africans will board the flight to England and South Africa will become the new Zimbabwe from this trauma.

 

There you go that brings me on the same page as him.

 

What's with this nonsense strawman BS?   Kid gloves will come off again if you keep this crap up...

[maniac]

42 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Yes, I find the probabilities for Steyn just turning up and taking a 5-fer at this point in time against India, given that he is yet to play anything other than a T20, about the same as a M Shami or Bhuvi taking a 5-fer.  You are overly focused on the past history.  Evaluate the players as they are now.  How have Shami and Bhuvi been bowling in the last 5-7 tests they have played?  Bhuvi even has ridiculuously good stats to back this up.   

 

You can keep quaking in your boots, and keep fixating on past history - but my take on the Ind-SA series is that its going to be a contest between 2 close to evenly matched teams, even after accounting for home conditions, and India have a slight edge due to their more experienced and settled team line-up.   I back our top 5 to out-bat the South Africans, and I'm expecting our bowlers to deliver.   I'm not guaranteeing that this will happen, but I feel the odds are pretty good.  

 

I don't need to convince you of this.  We can agree to disagree.   

Quaking in boots..... wtf   I hate using this phrase but I will say it regardless “dude take a chill pill”

 

I am not saying I have a gold standard ranking system...I tried to be subjective and use my judgement to come with a comparison apples to apples....you are free to dispute that rather than talking about your instincts etc.

 

If you read the OP I have already said India are slightly ahead on a few things like the Spin attack and even Opening slots.

 

Now let me state some obvious facts-South Africa are a strong side...sure may be not as menacing as they used to be but still they are a top side and they are playing at home....for a visiting team especially a Subcontinent side to beat them 2/3 times requires some mercurial performances and not once but twice. Can they happen...sure but is it something you just can’t predict based on facts on hand.

 

Sure Steyn is aging and Bhuvi has done well in helpful conditions but to win test matches leave alone a full series bowling has to perform as a unit and that too consistently...for a visiting team to outperform a home team with the ball in their familiar conditions,they have to be way way superior...do you really think Indian bowling unit is that way ahead of the South Africa. Bowling unit...really???

 

Indian batting has prone to collapses even at home...it’s always that one defining innings that has given them a shot and the spinners have taken that ball and ran with and absolutely destroyed opponents....neither spin nor the above stated batting inconsistencies will help in South Africa....again this is a fact...I don’t have to go into history to come up with that...just watching some recent games will help.

 

Fielding is almost an Achilles heel and it is a bigger problem than you think...which means Indian bowlers have to produce a lot more wicket taking deliveries.

 

These are all obvious problems...despite that I think we have mercurial players who can step up and win a game on their own like Ishant or Rahane at Lords or even Kohli who is one of the best batsman  in the world right now...but this flash in the pan doesn’t work over a course of a series.

 

I am presenting these opinions to you based on everything I have seen in recent times

 

forget my gut which is useless  as it has grown in size over the last couple of years and does nothing...even though I would pray that Indian team wins the series 3-0 you need to have some sense of reality here....just not go on some stupid pseudo patriotic drivel ...let us have a cricketing debate ffs.

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by maniac

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

for a visiting team to outperform a home team with the ball in their familiar conditions,they have to be way way superior...do you really think Indian bowling unit is that way ahead of the South Africa. Bowling unit...really???

I disagree with this assertion.   Test matches are won by cumulative efforts stacked over the course of 5 days, and we don't need the Indian bowlers to be "way way superior" to the Saffers.  A consistent quality performance by the bowlers, coupled with some good batting should be enough to get past this Saffer team. 

 

This Saffer team is NOT that strong a unit as it has been in the past - we have come up short against a South African unit that had Kallis in the top order and AB as the wicket-keeper, effectively a 13 man unit.   The current team doesn't have that depth, QdK's quality notwithstanding.  

 

In a nutshell, you are firmly focused on the glass half-empty, while I'm pointing out the glass half-full.  What bothers me is your idiocy in claiming that I'm predicting we will "smash" them.   Not once have I said anything along those lines.   Its your chronic reading comprehension problem all over again.  I've been saying its 55-45 in India's favor for a couple of months now.   And nothing has changed to make me reconsider that position.   Sure, its a bit of an optimistic stance, because it assumes that our batting will carry on from where they left off from the last tour, and do better.  But there's plenty of reason to back that optimism.  

 

Historically, our poor overseas performances were due to two primary factors - weak openers that constantly exposed our middle order to the new ball;  And a lack of depth in the bowling unit, which let teams off the hook, even when our primary bowlers managed to make inroads.   I look at our team, and see both those factors mitigated to a large extent.   

 

We have a settled, battle-hardened unit from 1 to 11, ready for the challenge of an SA tour.  The South Africans have a lot more question marks on both sides of the ball.   There are potential chinks that can be exposed and capitalized on - Not saying that its going to happen, but we have a team that's good enough, and consistent enough to make me believe that the chances are bright.   

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by sandeep

[CG]

Cricket is Not Played On Paper.I think this is our best chance of winning as series in SA.Bhuvi,Shami,Yadav,Bumrah,Ishant Make a potent pace attack and Spin will play a Role.Steyn Abdv are making a comeback to test cricket bound it be rusty,Rabada and Philander are threats Sure But Sa Batting is not as strong as it is made out to be.

[maniac]

As I said Fielding will hurt us even worse in South Africa...not sure where some ICFrs are getting this bravado from.

 

Easy win becomes a draw against a mediocre side just imagine playing a stronger side on their home turf.

 

Some of the comments are really delusional. 

[kruiser]

The biggest decider is not going to be batting, bowling or keeping. we will lose it just because of catching. If our slips can catch 80% of all chances, we will do fabulously well in SA. 

[The Realist]

16 minutes ago, maniac said:

As I said Fielding will hurt us even worse in South Africa...not sure where some ICFrs are getting this bravado from.

 

Easy win becomes a draw against a mediocre side just imagine playing a stronger side on their home turf.

 

Some of the comments are really delusional. 

Agree. There are too many false delusions of grandeur.

A team that huffed and puffed to take TWO wickets on the 5th day of a test match v a desperately weak SL does not inspire confidence. Add to that the body language and physical fitness is very poor which will be exposed starkly overseas. On a hard SA tour this brittle team could unravel fast and no amount of cheer-leading will be able to paper over the cracks. 

[sandeep]

If we "catch" like we did at Kotla in the slips, then yes - all the optimism can be thrown into the trash.   

 

I still stand by my opinion of the SA tour though.   

[cric_fan]

When does the series begin? I better have my popcorn ready for when the forum goes into meltdown [emoji897]

[jusarrived]

I was extremely confident of winning our first series in SA , not so sure anymore . In recent times we have not travelled with such an unsettled batting lineup and historically our bowlers dont adapt well and never has happened as a unit . Not great signs .

 

Our best chance is if we get pitches which heavily assist our bowlers  . I dont rate the SA batting much , we can get them out for low scores and few good knocks our batting can put up par scores this is still doable .

 

 

[jusarrived]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

As I said Fielding will hurt us even worse in South Africa...not sure where some ICFrs are getting this bravado from.

 

Easy win becomes a draw against a mediocre side just imagine playing a stronger side on their home turf.

 

Some of the comments are really delusional. 

we need a bit of luck and things going our way . its not unimaginable .