2G verdict - Raja/Kanimozhi found NOT guilty.

[Gollum]

57 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Long story and will lead to a huge debate bro.....

 

There is no direct evidence that leads to him (or so they say) but there are tons and tons of circumstantial evidence using which one can use to say Modi is far far far from being innocent.

 

Mayaben Kodnani a convicted MLA for leading a charge against Muslims was promoted as Minister later on. Do we honestly think, Modi the CM was clueless to Kodnani's role in 2001 riots?

 

There is a lot more stuff too but again, I don't wish to open up that debate right now.

 

As for 1984 riots, yes Congress played a role. The reason why Rajiv Gandhi doesn't get directly blamed was because he was new at that time and wasn't the one in charge but I would bet my bottom dollars he knew about the riots (which were instigated by Congress leaders) but kept quiet.

 

This is what Rajiv Gandhi said about the riots

 

"We must remember Indiraji. We must remember why her assassination happened. We must remember who could be the people behind this. When Indira's assassination happened, there were riots in the country. We know that the hearts of the Indian people were full of anger and that for a few days people felt India was shaking. When a big tree falls, the earth shakes."

 

Is this how a guy who DOES NOT know what is happening will talk? Such an apologetic tone instead of expressing agony over the incident.

 

No justification should be given for what Congress did to Sikhs. They committed genocide just like BJP did and they were slammed for it. The reason they don't still get slammed for it was because they don't have inherent hatred for Sikhs as BJP/RSS has for Muslims.

 

This could go on for a long long debate but let me simplify.....forget facts, laws, technicalities, just watch this video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAGAYL8dtic

 

I came across this video after I had read everything and made up my opinions. After watching this video, hand to heart, let's ask ourselves - is this guy innocent?

 

Note: I am not saying he is guilty because of this video per se but I am merely using this video as a simplistic tool to point out how the body language drips of guilt. 

 

Apart from 2001, Modi's reputation prior to him becoming PM is not great either (have relatives who have held high posts in corporate companies and dealt with high profile politicians).

 

Modi, Salman Khan, Shankaracharya, Kanimozhi, Raja - All got away.

 

All innocent declared by court.

 

USA didn't deny visa for Modi (prior to him becoming PM) for no reason. In international media, he was widely considered the culprit who let things happen.

 

Hafeez Saeed was declared innocent by Lahore high court due to poor prosecution. Does anyone even believe that reflects the reality?

Yup will be a long winding debate which can be reserved for another thread. Moreover because of paucity of time I can't express all my feelings on the subject right now, shall do it later when I am free. 

 

I don't think you can dissect Gujarat 2002 without taking into account what the country was going through for a few years prior to that. There were terror attacks in our cities every other day, Kashmiri Panidts and Sikhs (those who hadn't fled during the exodus) were being butchered like goats by Islamists, Kargil and Parliament attack happened and many Hindu temples were under constant attack by jihadis. Then we had the Godhra train burning where 59 women and children were roasted alive by a fanatic Islamic mob. How do you think any country would react? This sort of nonsense won't be tolerated by any populace, what happened in Gujarat was just people letting off their steam against the Muslims, and even Hindus and police died in the riots, something which liberals try to hide. In such a huge country which carries a historical baggage and where education, administration and riot control is quite underwhelming compared to the first world, such a situation is inevitable. We don't yet know all details of the riots, UPA in the 10 years had all the power to frame the BJP top brass but still not much progress. As far as I have read Modi sprung into action and tried to stop the riots but some opposition political parties, media and NGOs did their bit to fan the flames. Modi even asked Diggy for extra RAF reinforcement but the Congressman denied help. Still if you compare Gujarat to 84 riots, Bombay riots or Nellie massacre, the scale of death was less and it wasn't one sided like the riots under Congress rule. In 2002, the police fired and killed rioting Hindus......in Congress era police kept quiet during riots.

 

Regarding BJP/RSS hatred for Muslims vs Congress' relationship with Sikhs........ Sikhs gave trouble for a few years during peak Khalistan insurgency. By and large Sikhs are loyal patriots who don't resort to violence and anti India activities. Muslims are an entirely different case, forget pre 1947...look at what they have done post independence. Insurgency, terror attacks, underworld,  forced conversion, riots, crime, pro enemy activities......every body has a tolerance level !!!! Whilst I am not a Hindutvadi type I have no respect for radical Islam and Islam in default mode tends to be quite radical (even former Kerala CM Achutanandam (CPM) has said the same thing, so this feeling cuts across political ideology). Not just India, take any other non Muslim majority country like Russia, Philippines, Germany, Sweden etc. Do these people leave anyone in peace? What problems we are facing so many other countries face because of Islam...time for humanity to wake up and stop pussyfooting around. In the 21st century Islam is as big a problem as global warming, 2 issues which we all need to confront decisively. 

 

I don't see any guilt in that Karan Thapar interview. I see only irritation and Karan Thapar the Congie stooge has irritated many other people. He is a poor journalist who has no respect for his guests and only attempts to make them uncomfortable. Also a sadist whose most memorable moment (his own words) was making Kapil Dev cry on his show. If tomorrow a Rahul Gandhi leaves in the middle of an interview with Arnab Goswami/ Rahul Shivshankar/ Navika Kumar I won't judge him because this isn't journalism in my eyes, just textbook bullying cum bad manners.

 

I don't care what USA did with Modi's visa and I don't like India's tilt towards USA at the expense of Russia. USA is the greatest violator of human rights whose foreign policy (wars and regime changes) is  the source of 50% of mankind's problems today. Their job is to destabilize certain regions for long term geo strategic/economic purposes and they will kill millions to achieve their goals. If I were Modi I would wear the visa rejection by that shithole as a badge of honour. As such I don't take western media seriously, they are hypocrites of the highest order, what they say or lecture has no bearing on what happens in India. China and Russia boycott their biased narrative and I wish we do the same ASAP. 

 

Hafeez Saeed is a global terrorist and Pakistan judiciary is a joke   Pakistan the country is a joke. I don't find it even fit to respond to this absurd comparison. 

 

Anyway let's put a full stop to this discussion because we are digressing from the premise of this thread. I don't want to change your mind about the 2002 subject, just that I have a different view and to each his own. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Gollum

[surajmal]

So this judge while questioning the intentions/lack of seriousness of the prosecution, also questions CAG. WTF?! CAG findings have already been stamped by Supreme court. Is the SC just going to allow contempt from a low level cretin so easily? 

 

**** gets worse. CBI's prosecutor was Anand grover, husband of Indira Jaisingh. WTF was the PMO doing when CBI was self sabotaging the entire process? That sh itface Ravi Shankar Prasad couldn't see the conflict of interest? 

 

Swamy is right to be seething. CBI needs a major cleanup... Ridiculous we are talking about cleanups 3.5 yrs into his tenure. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by surajmal

[surajmal]

Ravi Shankar Prasad should be canned for this fe ck up. Jaitley, I can look the other way since he was sick at the time of these appointments (IIRC) and has been busy with 2 major portfolios for big chunk of the term. RSP just comes across as a chutiya (also a lutyens aspirant). Him, along with a javdekar have no business being in the cabinet. None. I prefer empty chairs if Namo can't find someone qualified. 

[velu]

 **** judgement 

[Trichromatic]

16 minutes ago, surajmal said:

Ravi Shankar Prasad should be canned for this fe ck up. Jaitley, I can look the other way since he was sick at the time of these appointments (IIRC) and has been busy with 2 major portfolios for big chunk of the term. RSP just comes across as a chutiya (also a lutyens aspirant). Him, along with a javdekar have no business being in the cabinet. None. I prefer empty chairs if Namo can't find someone qualified. 

Not surprising

 

Quote

After losing face in Rajya Sabha, Amit Shah pulls up BJP MPs for absenteeism

74 versus 56 votes 

The division of the vote on the amendment carried 74 Opposition MPs voting for, and 52 against, reflecting on the lack of numbers on the government’s side. The BJP’s standalone strength in the Rajya Sabha is 56 while the ruling block enjoys the support of 88 members, including 10 JD(U) MPs.

Of the 31 absent NDA MPs, 13 belonged to the BJP, including five top ministers – Dharmendra Pradhan, Piyush Goyal, Nirmala Sitharaman, Smriti Irani and Ravi Shankar Prasad.

This guy is useless.

[diga]

No doubt , internally sabotaged... Despite evidence(swan Telecom/ cancellation of 122  2G licenses by SC ) to the contrary, the public prosecutor has effectively protected the accused.what a f*** up by the law minister.. Lookup Rajeev Shukla & Ravishankar Prasad ... 

Edited December 21, 2017 by diga

[diga]

Gangadheen ecosystem is strong..No action by Namo on 2G, national herald, sunanda or vadra.

[coffee_rules]

BJP blindsided..round 2 in SC

or is namo playing a bigger game with DMK..heard on twitter...

 

 

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, surajmal said:

So this judge while questioning the intentions/lack of seriousness of the prosecution, also questions CAG. WTF?! CAG findings have already been stamped by Supreme court. Is the SC just going to allow contempt from a low level cretin so easily? 

 

**** gets worse. CBI's prosecutor was Anand grover, husband of Indira Jaisingh. WTF was the PMO doing when CBI was self sabotaging the entire process? That sh itface Ravi Shankar Prasad couldn't see the conflict of interest? 

 

Swamy is right to be seething. CBI needs a major cleanup... Ridiculous we are talking about cleanups 3.5 yrs into his tenure. 

Self explanatory, I couldn't believe my eyes when you wrote this, now checked and confirmed. This case was set up for failure, how did PMO allow this traitor in this case, surely as you indicated people inside the Modi sarkar are working overtime to sabotage his govt and do Congress' bidding . Tragic tragic development. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Gollum

[randomGuy]

5 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

Just because someone has major issues with BJP/RSS does not automatically mean they are ok with everything reg Muslims/aspects of Islam.

BJP/RSS are not the voice of reason when it comes to religion. They are a bunch of hypocrites masquerading as nationalists and actlike protectors of Hinduism.

some are, most are just realistic people. Islam is poison, incomparable with any religion in this world, needs to be kept under control, and never be appeased. 

[Gollum]

Justice Karnan was right all along, judiciary is the most corrupt wing of our democracy. 

[Yoda-esque]

Accept it and move on.People aren't stupid.

[surajmal]

Now Chavan let off in Adarsh Scam Case. Court chides CBI's investigation again. Even if one concedes that CBI leadership is compromised, investigation abilities of CBI has proven to be not even 3rd world level again and again. 

Police reforms..... Again we come back to that mfer RSP. What an absolute waste of sperm. (Also, lets not forget Mr. Kadi Ninda who has been out of the news for a little while now. I wonder why?)

Edited December 22, 2017 by surajmal

[asterix]

Good info:

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/2g-case-leave-alone-the-scam-even-the-acquittal-reeks-of-upa

[diga]

Indians dont understand the concept of conflict of interest ...

 

Quote

"O P Saini is father of Congress MLA Angad Singh Saini"