Speed,Swing &Performance of Fast Bowlers & Swing Bowlers in 2018 IPL

[vishalvirsingh]

3 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

 

Fast bowling is what makes cricket fun to watch for me .I would rather watch someone spray it around at 90mph than watch herath pick 1000 wickets .

 

zaheer struggled in 2002 in eng, later he had more experience and he also got a bit lucky as nottingham 1st inning was very helpful conditions to bowl and 2nd inning they were under huge scoreboard pressure.

 

In eng you also have to get used to the slope of the ground else your rhythm will be affected ,Eng bowlers use the slope to their advantage whereas foreign pacers struggle .Watch the aaron video on that thread,I am not sure if it is the camera angle but there seems to be  a big slope going from left to right of the screen and helping to bringing the ball in with the slope.

 

 

 

Same here...watching SPIN is Boring.

[Rightarmfast]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

In cricket, stamina comes by bowling a lot, 19-20 year olds don't bowl a lot of bowl 145kph, teams are always vary of workload that lead to those stress injuries. Yes, bowling actions do play a part but age also is one of the factor and you can't dismiss it saying googled knowledge. You have little idea about sports science. Even the greatest of the sportsmen lack perspective and have clue about what they are saying. So, it doesn't matter since when you are in sports or not. You are trying to refute specific studies that have been done about fast bowling. Mean age for stress fractures in fast bowlers is 20. 

17-18 yr olds dont bowl 145 because their muscles do not develop by then. They are not at their peak when it comes to strength. While when it comes to flexibility and stamina, you are at your peak when you are at your younger most.

 

A lot of stress fractures could be happening to 17-18 yr olds but what is the core reason behind that happening? That they do not have sufficient strength and put unnatural stress on their muscles, apart from adopting a wrong posture and bowling action thinking they can bowl faster. But not all of them would have the same problem.

 

I may have little idea about sports science, but I wouldn't rate someone reading google and coming and giving expert comments.

[Nikhil_cric]

11 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Knowledge from google cannot be taken seriously. If you are a fireman, you will get burnt. But you will get burnt when your technique is wrong. Anybody who is getting injured in sports, is getting injured because of incorrect training and practices. 

 

If a kid is exerting excess pressure on his back, or has an incorrect bowling posture, just to get extra pace, he will get injured. It is natural. 

Anybody with a freeflowing action will have least injury. I have myself been in sports since the age of 8-9 yrs. Been there done that. While I don't claim to know it all, but someone giving google as a source of information, without understanding the dynamics is hilarious to me.

 

Btw, the topic of the conversation was stamina, and not stress fractures. There's a limit to being irrelevant to the topic, and yet trying to bulldoze your point. That's outright rude, lacks courtesy and shows least respect towards the other.

Oh I wasn't trying to say I know all about sports science or anything of the sort . Just a few observations about fast bowlers I've seen . Didn't mean to derail the conversation. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

17-18 yr olds dont bowl 145 because their muscles do not develop by then. They are not at their peak when it comes to strength. While when it comes to flexibility and stamina, you are at your peak when you are at your younger most.

 

A lot of stress fractures could be happening to 17-18 yr olds but what is the core reason behind that happening? That they do not have sufficient strength and put unnatural stress on their muscles, apart from adopting a wrong posture and bowling action thinking they can bowl faster. But not all of them would have the same problem.

 

I may have little idea about sports science, but I wouldn't rate someone reading google and coming and giving expert comments.

Stress fractures happen till the age of 24-25 and it is not about google but watching cricket and observing fast bowlers and reading about science of fast bowling.  There is a reason bowlers can gain pace till 25 because that is the age their bodies develop. Same reason why they can get stress fracture till now 24-25 because bodies are still maturing. Regarding stamina, this is ridiculous to hear, being younger does not mean stamina. Requirements in all sports is not same. Stamina for fast bowlers is completely different than what you need in football or athletics.  Fast bowlers develop stamina by bowling. A 20  year old fast bowler will have lesser stamina than a fit 30 year old Umesh Yadav because he has bowled long spells and has gone through the rigors. His body is strong and he is fit.  He can maintain pace throughout the day.  A young bowler will tire out quicker because he is not used to bowl spells with intensity whole day at lower level of cricket.

 

Let me give you one example of stamina. 18 year old Sundar could not clear Yo-Yo test, which indicates how good your stamina is and year old Nehra cleared it.  

Edited May 22, 2018 by rkt.india

[Rightarmfast]

7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Stress fractures happen till the age of 24-25 and it is not about google but watching cricket and observing fast bowlers and reading about science of fast bowling.  There is a reason bowlers can gain pace till 25 because that is the age their bodies develop. Same reason why they can get stress fracture till now 24-25 because bodies are still maturing. Regarding stamina, this is ridiculous to hear, being younger does not mean stamina. Requirements in all sports is not same. Stamina for fast bowlers is completely different than what you need in football or athletics.  Fast bowlers develop stamina by bowling. A 20  year old fast bowler will have lesser stamina than a fit 30 year old Umesh Yadav because he has bowled long spells and has gone through the rigors. His body is strong and he is fit.  He can maintain pace throughout the day.  A young bowler will tire out quicker because he is not used to bowl spells with intensity whole day at lower level of cricket.

 

Let me give you one example of stamina. 18 year old Sundar could not clear Yo-Yo test, which indicates how good your stamina is and year old Nehra cleared it.  

It just means Sundar is not athletic or has been training under a stupid coach. It also means Nehra is not only athletic, he has also been taking care of himself. Please watch ' Breakfast with champions' and listen to his daily diet. Will give you an idea how much routine he follows or has followed. 

 

You are confusing stamina with practise. Umesh has more practise of bowling in more no of matches,while say, Nagarkotti doesnt. So what you are talking about is called muscle memory. Umesh yadav's body is used to such rigors and his muscle memory knows what kind of maximum stress it has to exert. While Nagarkotti's body isnt.

It doesnt mean Nagarkotti cant do it. Or Nagarkotti doesnt have stamina. Nagarkotti can bowl many more overs than Umesh, and can run faster and longer than Umesh yadav, any day, any place and any hour! 

[express bowling]

D.Chahar looked a bit innocous today in his first 2 overs, as the ball was not swinging.  His ultimate bowling figures were salvaged as SRH lost 4 quick wickets and went into a shell.

 

Chahar looks really good when the ball is swinging. His outswinger is very good indeed.

 

But this is the problem with medium paced swing bowlers.  They look innocuous when conventional swing is not available ... and conventional swing is not available more often than not.

Edited May 22, 2018 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Shardul Thakur has become a backup pacer for Team India in all 3 formats.

 

I wanted to see him bowl quite a bit before forming a definitive opinion.

 

But Shardul has generally looked quite innocuous, whether in international cricket or the IPL.

 

Very short pacer ...  no extra pace ... no natural bounce ...  not that accurate either ...  has not stood out in terms of moving the ball ... does not specialize in either yorkers or bouncers or slower balls.

 

He is in the test squad against Afghanistan.

 

I hope we pick some other pacer for England tests.

Edited May 22, 2018 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Shardul Thakur has become a backup pacer for Team India in all 3 formats.

 

I wanted to see him bowl quite a bit before forming a definitive opinion.

 

But Shardul has generally looked quite innocuous, whether in international cricket of the IPL.

 

Very short pacer ...  no extra pace ... no natural bounce ...  not that accurate either ...  has not stood out in terms of moving the ball ... does not specialize in either yorkers or bouncers or slower balls.

 

He is in the test squad against Afghanistan.

 

I hope we pick some other pacer for England tests.

This is mediocrity on selectors part,even the srh management has not learned their lesson ,they are playing an army of Trundlers against the power packed Csk order,wonder what idea they put into practice,so defensive ,they think a bit of pace wil mak run scoring easy ,easly undermine the package a genuine pacr brings to the table

Edited May 22, 2018 by Suhaan

[express bowling]

Bhuvi bowling beautifully in his first over.

 

Swinging the ball both ways.

 

But it is not limited to swing.  Has got some bounce and seam movement with some deliveries too. This is the additional weapon that I want to see in swing bowlers and what Bhuvi has developed in the last 12 months.

 

The jaffa to dismiss Watson was superb. 

[velu]

lungi is really impressive and he is tad bit slower than most of our young guns like avesh , asif etc but doing far better considering this is his first visit to india 

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

It just means Sundar is not athletic or has been training under a stupid coach. It also means Nehra is not only athletic, he has also been taking care of himself. Please watch ' Breakfast with champions' and listen to his daily diet. Will give you an idea how much routine he follows or has followed. 

 

You are confusing stamina with practise. Umesh has more practise of bowling in more no of matches,while say, Nagarkotti doesnt. So what you are talking about is called muscle memory. Umesh yadav's body is used to such rigors and his muscle memory knows what kind of maximum stress it has to exert. While Nagarkotti's body isnt.

It doesnt mean Nagarkotti cant do it. Or Nagarkotti doesnt have stamina. Nagarkotti can bowl many more overs than Umesh, and can run faster and longer than Umesh yadav, any day, any place and any hour! 

No he cant because he is not used to it. You dont bowl whole day in dreams. you have to do it on the field and you can do that on the field only if you have done it before.  You cannot just come up and bowl that way whole day.  Recently Nathu Singh who is a fast bowler could not clear Yo Yo test and was not picked by Rajasthan and was asked to work on his fitness.  Stamina and practice are mutual. You cannot get stamina of bowling without practicing bowling. We are not talking about running here. Bowling stamina is completely different from running. You cannot bowl 40 overs in 5 days at pace if you have not done that before.  U19 cricketers play 3-day games at max.  

 

Stamina and maintaining intensity is one of the most important aspect for a fast bowler and it does not come easy irrespective of what age the bowler is. Your age is 20 does not mean you can bowl at an average 140Kph for 20 overs in a day.  You are undermining how hard guys like Umesh Yadav have worked on their fitness to achieve those fitness levels where he could bowl at an average pace over 140KPH 20 overs a day.  It takes a lot of bowling and effort to be able to do that. Rabada is young and he too at times struggle to maintain inmtensity at the end of a long day. 

 

I remember likes of Nehra and Zak when they were young would start bowling in high 130s to early 140s but would trundle in 120s by 2nd day.  i have endured that pain of watching their pathetic effort and intensity.  The reason for me the likes of Umesh and Aaron are like God of fast bowling in India who could bowl same pace even at the end of the day even after bowling 30 overs.

Edited May 22, 2018 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, velu said:

lungi is really impressive and he is tad bit slower than most of our young guns like avesh , asif etc but doing far better considering this is his first visit to india 

he is very tall and gets a lot of bounce with high arm action.

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, velu said:

lungi is really impressive and he is tad bit slower than most of our young guns like avesh , asif etc but doing far better considering this is his first visit to india 

 

Lungi has been really impressive.

 

That he has already played 68  T20 and List A matches, compared to 14 by Avesh and  5 by Asif ... has helped him go ahead too.

[Suhaan]

15 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Lungi has been really impressive.

 

That he has already played 68  T20 and List A matches, compared to 14 by Avesh and  5 by Asif ... has helped him go ahead too.

Moreover he gets his chance on these bowling pitches,before Avesh could bowl on these he was benched

[Vk1]

Should monitor Bhuvi closely. He seems to have restarted the regression mode. Got covered up with average batsman and friendly pitches in ipl. Boom boom odi and T20 international cricket won't give him such chances.

[Vk1]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Lungi has been really impressive.

 

That he has already played 68  T20 and List A matches, compared to 14 by Avesh and  5 by Asif ... has helped him go ahead too.

Really impressed with him. He seems to be able to bowl that length which troubles most indian batsman.

[vishalvirsingh]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

No he cant because he is not used to it. You dont bowl whole day in dreams. you have to do it on the field and you can do that on the field only if you have done it before.  You cannot just come up and bowl that way whole day.  Recently Nathu Singh who is a fast bowler could not clear Yo Yo test and was not picked by Rajasthan and was asked to work on his fitness.  Stamina and practice are mutual. You cannot get stamina of bowling without practicing bowling. We are not talking about running here. Bowling stamina is completely different from running. You cannot bowl 40 overs in 5 days at pace if you have not done that before.  U19 cricketers play 3-day games at max.  

 

Stamina and maintaining intensity is one of the most important aspect for a fast bowler and it does not come easy irrespective of what age the bowler is. Your age is 20 does not mean you can bowl at an average 140Kph for 20 overs in a day.  You are undermining how hard guys like Umesh Yadav have worked on their fitness to achieve those fitness levels where he could bowl at an average pace over 140KPH 20 overs a day.  It takes a lot of bowling and effort to be able to do that. Rabada is young and he too at times struggle to maintain inmtensity at the end of a long day. 

 

I remember likes of Nehra and Zak when they were young would start bowling in high 130s to early 140s but would trundle in 120s by 2nd day.  i have endured that pain of watching their pathetic effort and intensity.  The reason for me the likes of Umesh and Aaron are like God of fast bowling in India who could bowl same pace even at the end of the day even after bowling 30 overs.

liked this post a lot.

i agree to rkt that Umesh was possibly the first Pacer who could bowl close to 140 K even at the end of day in a test Match, he too slowed down in his last spell.

 

ZAk was 140+ in first spells and virtually unplayable and in his last spell under 130K and some times between 120 to 128K ..which was very bad to digest by fast bowling lovers like me.

 

i saw an ODI match in which ZAk came and got his first wicket in the first over and i was sitting towards the bowling run up side, ZAK ran at a genuinely good speed in the run up in the first over and bowled few balls which I could not track with my eyes and batsman was getting beaten and suddenly he snicked and got out. batsman was a newzealand opener and he got beaten of all the balls and i knew he would get out to ZAK. after 40 overs ZAK came to bowl , in his run up he ran as if he was a fat Man , actually this was in his last years and he had grown a bit FAT.

ball was always visible to the naked eye and batsman still did not hit him badly but the difference in pace was actually so much that i could not trace the ball earlier and here I could track the ball.

if i can track the ball, i can even play him or at least try to save my sticks but his first SPELL was TERROR...Deadly,dangerous, i wont go and face him even if i am paid good handsome Money...Scary deadly pacy bowling and shrewd too as he played with the batsman in his first Spell...batsman were jokers who were there to be fooled and hit and beaten in his first Spell.

ASK african captain fat african captain ,,what ZAK was.

[vishalvirsingh]

Bhuvi and SID Kaul seem to be Swinging the New Ball at their wish and are Looking Meagre average Under 135K trundlers after the ball is 14 overs old as they are not able to Swing the Ball at all.

this kinda indicates that these guys will be first Spell bowlers only in Tests and even in ODI, which is disappointing.

in first Spell, both these guys look like ruling the batsman and later batsman attack them and they are getting HIT as much as other fast bowlers.

in africa bhuvi maintained his pace even in his later spells and in his first spell he was unplayable.

where as Ishant was similiar defensive bowler in first spell and even later spells too he was similiarly defensive run stopping bowler who did not get wickets neither in first spell nor his last.

SHAMMI was high and Low..some times looking deadly and fast and some times looking average..some times fast even with an old ball.

[S_pace]

Prasidh Krishna 1 over.

140k

131k

138k

137k

143k

144k

2 over.

134k

129k

139k

140k

142k

113k

 

Good pace but have gone for 4 boundaries.

 

 

[express bowling]

37 minutes ago, S_pace said:

Prasidh Krishna

 

Good pace but have gone for 4 boundaries.

 

 

 

3 boundaries.