Ind batting not looking equipped for the upcoming Batathon

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Lannister said:

Don't think England can defeat this Indian team in bilaterals. They don't have good enough bowlers to exploit the batting weakness and their batsmen are more likely to fail against our wrist spinners. These two teams will not make to finals if they stick to the same strengths without any changes. 

same Indian team did make final in CT

[raki05]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

same Indian team did make final in CT

Agree but don't you see this trend failing big time in important matches. We were always short of respectable target and unable to chase target when our top order flopped. Ex: WC 15 sf, CT17 , wt20 16. It all leads to the fact that our strategy is not right and players are playing on reputation or friendship .Yuvi/dhoni/Raina/Pandey can feast on mediocre bowling attack. But when we really need them in important matches ( CT,WC)  not just in final even in leagues matches we can't count on them. Other than top3 this is mediocre batting lineup.

[raki05]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

same Indian team did make final in CT

Agree but don't you see this trend failing big time in important matches. We were always short of respectable target and unable to chase target when our top order flopped. Ex: WC 15 sf, CT17 , wt20 16. It all leads to the fact that our strategy is not right and players are playing on reputation or friendship .Yuvi/dhoni/Raina/Pandey can feast on mediocre bowling attack. But when we really need them in important matches ( CT,WC)  not just in final even in leagues matches we can't count on them. Other than top3 this is mediocre batting lineup.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

Agree but don't you see this trend failing big time in important matches. We were always short of respectable target and unable to chase target when our top order flopped. Ex: WC 15 sf, CT17 , wt20 16. It all leads to the fact that our strategy is not right and players are playing on reputation or friendship .Yuvi/dhoni/Raina/Pandey can feast on mediocre bowling attack. But when we really need them in important matches ( CT,WC)  not just in final even in leagues matches we can't count on them. Other than top3 this is mediocre batting lineup.

but its very difficult to chase a huge total in such a pressure game, most team fails

our biggest chaser kohli has failed , these same guys will plunder same opposition same total in a bilateral series game 

 

World tournaments become more about pressure and chasing becomes really difficult 

[jusarrived]

13 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yea as if we have been struggling to win against big time

I think u have forgotten our biggest strength has been top 3 in last few yrs and rohit is one of them

On his day he can cause a carngae liek no one, u dnt get 200 3 times like that 

 

yea let someone even come close to rohit sharma even with his limitation

Dhawan and Virat are our biggest strengths , Rohit hides behind these guys so lets not club him with other two. 

 

I have given you stats which shows otherwise , yeah 3 200s but thats mainly because that hes one of the 2 batsmen along with Dhawan who gets to bat on 60m grounds  regularly . What I care about is the first 30 overs where he regularly screws the team with his selfish batting  , more than the "carnage" we have witnessed in one or two matches in his career .

 

How does any other batsmen prove himself when hes not given an opportunity ? This guy is insecure to let go of his spot even against IRE lol 

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

middle order is a big issue too.  if top order plays quick like we are 140/3 in 20 overs what next. There is not guarantee middle order of Dhoni and others can take them to 350 in 50. The reason they are happy with 110/1 in 20.

How many times have we been 140 in 20 overs??  And how many out of those have we failed to put up 350+?  

 

I will keep citing the CT loss to Sri Lanka as an example because its emblematic of our batting failures.  We scored 340 in that game.   But top order scored 200 at about run a ball or slower.  Our "flawed" middle order came in and added 140 in less about 90 balls. Is that "bad"?  We lost that game because we were about 15 runs short.  Sure, Mendis dismantling Jadeja played a part, so did Umesh leaking runs.  But that happens in LOIs.  Especially high scoring ones.  But if a strong batting team is going to bat in a cowardly manner and pass on the opportunity to add 20+ runs up front - intentionally - then even the weaker batting units like SL are going to exploit that.  

 

I'm not saying that middle order is not an issue - I'm saying its relatively easier to improve our scoring patterns up front. And that in turn can even help the middle order do better.   

[jusarrived]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

middle order is a big issue too.  if top order plays quick like we are 140/3 in 20 overs what next. There is not guarantee middle order of Dhoni and others can take them to 350 in 50. The reason they are happy with 110/1 in 20.

This has been the case for 7-8 years now , nothing to do with the middle order . 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Dhawan and Virat are our biggest strengths , Rohit hides behind these guys so lets not club him with other two. 

Rohit outscored both of them in Aus in 2016 and even when Sa came to india In 2015(dhawan was struggling big time back then )

 

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

I have given you stats which shows otherwise , yeah 3 200s but thats mainly because that hes one of the 2 batsmen along with Dhawan who gets to bat on 60m grounds  regularly . What I care about is the first 30 overs where he regularly screws the team with his selfish batting  , more than the "carnage" we have witnessed in one or two matches in his career .

Why didnt others score 200 on same ground

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

How does any other batsmen prove himself when hes not given an opportunity ? This guy is insecure to let go of his spot even against IRE lol 

1st earn the opportunity 

[jusarrived]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

How many times have we been 140 in 20 overs??  And how many out of those have we failed to put up 350+?  

 

I will keep citing the CT loss to Sri Lanka as an example because its emblematic of our batting failures.  We scored 340 in that game.   But top order scored 200 at about run a ball or slower.  Our "flawed" middle order came in and added 140 in less about 90 balls. Is that "bad"?  We lost that game because we were about 15 runs short.  Sure, Mendis dismantling Jadeja played a part, so did Umesh leaking runs.  But that happens in LOIs.  Especially high scoring ones.  But if a strong batting team is going to bat in a cowardly manner and pass on the opportunity to add 20+ runs up front - intentionally - then even the weaker batting units like SL are going to exploit that.  

 

I'm not saying that middle order is not an issue - I'm saying its relatively easier to improve our scoring patterns up front. And that in turn can even help the middle order do better.   

exactly . There is a reason if you filter through the best emerging bats in the country pretty much all of them are top order bats . 

We need to have different standards for Top and lower order batsmen .

[raki05]

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

but its very difficult to chase a huge total in such a pressure game, most team fails

our biggest chaser kohli has failed , these same guys will plunder same opposition same total in a bilateral series game 

 

World tournaments become more about pressure and chasing becomes really difficult 

But that is something we expect from India, that is the sole reason we chosen to bat last in CT17 final as we expected our batting to fire. Biggest chaser Kohli fail shouldn't mean other should also fail. When you have experience player like Yuvi /Dhoni/ Raina who are known for finishing ability and are there to restrain any middle order collapse  are not able to deliver when need comes then what's the purpose of having them. We can't justify the continuous failure in all 3 important final and sf post wc 11 saying if kohli can't do it no one can do it. If  that's the case why they are there just to make up the number, atleast show some fight like Pandya did.

[jusarrived]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rohit outscored both of them in Aus in 2016 and even when Sa came to india In 2015(dhawan was struggling big time back then )

 

Why didnt others score 200 on same ground

1st earn the opportunity 

again outscoring does not mean hes actually played well . We know sharma scores runs on flat pitches , its the pace at which he scores is a problem .

 

He opens and gets the maxiumum number of overs , the only other batsmen who gets the same opportunity as him is Dhawan who fortunately for us does not try to "anchor" the innings . Tendulkar and Sehwag also have 200s  against much better attacks though , again both openers . What exactly is the big deal about these double hundreds ? 

 

earn opportunity ?whats that even supposed to mean ? there are no batsmen in domestic performing now ?

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, jusarrived said:

again outscoring does not mean hes actually played well . We know sharma scores runs on flat pitches , its the pace at which he scores is a problem .

No its actually is the pace at which he starts 

U cnt get everything right with every player ......

 

U think a young shaw, mayank , pant doesnt have issue . They do and right way more then rohit sharma 

Just now, jusarrived said:

He opens and gets the maxiumum number of overs , the only other batsmen who gets the same opportunity as him is Dhawan who fortunately for us does not try to "anchor" the innings . Tendulkar and Sehwag also have 200s  against much better attacks though , again both openers . What exactly is the big deal about these double hundreds ? 

Then why doesnt dhawan have it if its that easy , rohit has literally daddy 100s 

Just now, jusarrived said:

 

earn opportunity ?whats that even supposed to mean ? there are no batsmen in domestic performing now ?

 

only domestic isnt enough 

Good ones score every where and then wait for the opp it will come . 

Eg 2014- rohit was injured for 10-15 games....rahane had the opp he didnt do enough

last yr eng home series- Rahul had his chances when was dropped or injured didnt do much

 

Opp will come may be rare coz we have a good team 

[SK_IH]

absolute BS argument that top order plays cautiously as the middle order is weak ,even if one agrees with this balderdash then change the supposed weak middle order rather than playing around their weakness

my blood boils when I watch Rohit waste overs upfront 

[Ankit_sharma03]

14 minutes ago, raki05 said:

But that is something we expect from India, that is the sole reason we chosen to bat last in CT17 final as we expected our batting to fire. Biggest chaser Kohli fail shouldn't mean other should also fail. When you have experience player like Yuvi /Dhoni/ Raina who are known for finishing ability and are there to restrain any middle order collapse  are not able to deliver when need comes then what's the purpose of having them. We can't justify the continuous failure in all 3 important final and sf post wc 11 saying if kohli can't do it no one can do it. If  that's the case why they are there just to make up the number, atleast show some fight like Pandya did.

most team will fail chasing

Had aus chased in 2015 semi final that target high chnaces they wud have failed so wud pak in 2017 CT

Chasing under pressure is a diff ball game, thats why they say win toss n bat 1st in pressure game 

 

the decisons to chase was stupid also considering pak strength was bowling .

Exp alone isnt enough 

Are they same yuvraj n dhoni anymore ????? no hell no 

We had a young pandya going gr8 guns chasing in CT final, ppl hear are questioning his place. And he alone wasnt going to win himself

In such games if ur top order doesnt fire most days u will loose 

 

SA can ask same Whats the point of having so many gr8 player in so many yrs when they choke.

The thing is u wnt get everything with every player. 

 

The only justification is we are a good team but not like mighty aussies that just cudnt loose . 

[Lannister]

5 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

Nobody in their right mind changes strengths 

Poor choice of words. They need make it more balanced not just tilted towards one discipline. 

[Tattieboy]

12 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Poor choice of words. They need make it more balanced not just tilted towards one discipline. 

Afraid England have tilted it, a whole team of batsmen who from ball one will hit it into the stands . Not a fluke either they been doing it for 3 years and getting better and better at it and now touching distance from 500. 

[raki05]

29 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

most team will fail chasing

Had aus chased in 2015 semi final that target high chnaces they wud have failed so wud pak in 2017 CT

Chasing under pressure is a diff ball game, thats why they say win toss n bat 1st in pressure game 

 

the decisons to chase was stupid also considering pak strength was bowling .

Exp alone isnt enough 

Are they same yuvraj n dhoni anymore ????? no hell no 

We had a young pandya going gr8 guns chasing in CT final, ppl hear are questioning his place. And he alone wasnt going to win himself

In such games if ur top order doesnt fire most days u will loose 

 

SA can ask same Whats the point of having so many gr8 player in so many yrs when they choke.

The thing is u wnt get everything with every player. 

 

The only justification is we are a good team but not like mighty aussies that just cudnt loose . 

There is a difference between loosing and surrendering. WC 15 SF and CT 17 are prime example of surrender and it all boils down, if your top order doesn't fire we can't expect even a respectable loss.  I clearly remember how we surrender in wc 15 sf once kohli got out we got a good start but when we needed dhoni to come up the order he send raina/ashwin before him and made useless 60 no where it looks like we are going to win. Same is the case in CT 17 Dhoni/Yuvraj came and played like headless chicken when all required was to stand there with young Pandya as he was doing all the work in terms of SR. Understand Dhoni is not the previous Dhoni but he could have stayed there to give company to Pandya. People say they are in team as they provide experience and avoid collapse in middle order and all i could see is one surrender after another.  We are not just loosing we are getting owned.

Edited June 29, 2018 by raki05

[SK_IH]

Ideallly Manish Pandey should not get another game on this tour after yesterday's blistering knock 

[UrmiSinhaRay]

Ideallly Manish Pandey should not get another game on this tour after yesterday's blistering knock 

The thing is he will get.
I think KL/DK should be accomodated in place of Manish Pandey

Sent from my CPH1609 using Tapatalk

[SK_IH]

Rohit ,Dhoni and Manish,that's 3 players who can ruin a Chase single handedly