Its disturbing to see Muslims being targeted : Tapsee Pannu

[Alam_dar]

24 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ I do not think u are getting the point.

India is culturally, religioisly, socially , economically and emotionally vegetarian.

I understand your thinking pattern.

 

Let me once show you my thinking pattern too. 

 

When I as atheist start thinking, then I start with Home Erectus and the Evolution, and how Homo Erectus were the biggest Hunters on the earth. And heavy consumption of meat (along with fire) was perhaps the reason which made the difference in evolution between apes and humans. 

 

Stone age ended only 10000 years ago, and there are enough proofs of Homo Sapiens, Neanderthal, Homo Erectus, all consuming big amounts of meat. 

 

Quote

Even the ones who eat meat cant withstand a slaughter.

Even many Muslims could not see the slaughter. Even Europeans could not see the slaughter, but still they eat meat a lot. 

 

Although slaughtering is difficult and perhaps smells, but for sure cooked meat has something for which human beings have been programmed since thousands of years during evolution. Ask anyone and you will get the same answer that cooked meat smells better than vegetables, and it also tastes better than the vegetables. 

 

Humans started cultivating vegetables and wheat only 10000 years ago. There is something in meat, which vegetables could never replace. 

 

Human teeth, length of intestine, human enzymes all are proofs that humans are Omnivores from nature. 

 

I, as atheist, believe that Human made the religions, and it was again human who made the traditions, and these traditions change with time. 

 

24 minutes ago, mishra said:

And most cant cant withstand the smell. 

I understand. 

24 minutes ago, mishra said:

On top of it, Cow is religiously sacred for them. Hence iirc bjpa Yogi did mention that, the traders who are buying these cattles should be disclosing why they are buying the cattle for to the villagers. 

So Hindus are not stopping anyone from eating beef. Just dont eat it on same dinner table. When u make the beef dish, ensure that leftovers are disposed such that its not in front of Hindus. Dont slaughter in front of them, if you are buying, Let them know that cattle they are selling is going to be slaughtered.

Yes, it should be the morals for the fellow human beings. 

 

Nevertheless, there will always be some extremists who will even throw the cow bones and meat in the Mandir. 
Evil is a part of Human Nature too along with good. 

We will perhaps never be able to become perfect. 

 

24 minutes ago, mishra said:

Most Hindus do not want to live beside Muslims is not down to just religios threat of Islam. They simply cant take the eating habbit and industry around that eating habbits of Muslim.

I again understand. 

 

In Europe, Indian families are making Daal and using Indian spices along with Heeng (Asafetida). Europeans could not bear the smell of Asafetida. Actually they could not even bear the smell of Incense. 

 

Nevertheless, the law makes it obligatory upon them to live with their Indian/Pakistani neighbours and bear these smells. 

 

This world is not perfect unfortunately. Some times one has to make the compromises. 

[Alam_dar]

15 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Your villagers must be very innocents or should I say they just want to turn blind eye.If a person is paying very good price for old cows , useless bulls then it is a open fact that he will slaughter or smuggle them.

 

As far not selling them is concerned you people actually have no idea what frankastein monster you people are creating

 

Abhi to shuruaat hai aage aage dekhiye hota hai kya

 

 

I don't think that making new Goshalas could work. Cows need a lot of grass, and there is simply not enough grass for them. 

 

People say that gobar could be used to produce more grass, but problem is this that there is not enough land for grass. The already available land and water is for cultivation. 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Alam_dar

[mishra]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

I understand your thinking pattern.

 

Let me once show you my thinking pattern too. 

 

When I as atheist start thinking, then I start with Home Erectus and the Evolution, and how Homo Erectus were the biggest Hunters on the earth. And heavy consumption of meat (along with fire) was perhaps the reason which made the difference in evolution between apes and humans. 

 

Stone age ended only 10000 years ago, and there are enough proofs of Homo Sapiens, Neanderthal, Homo Erectus, all consuming big amounts of meat. 

 

Even many Muslims could not see the slaughter. Even Europeans could not see the slaughter, but still they eat meat a lot. 

 

Although slaughtering is difficult and perhaps smells, but for sure cooked meat has something for which human beings have been programmed since thousands of years during evolution. Ask anyone and you will get the same answer that cooked meat smells better than vegetables, and it also tastes better than the vegetables. 

 

Humans started cultivating vegetables and wheat only 10000 years ago. There is something in meat, which vegetables could never replace. 

 

Human teeth, length of intestine, human enzymes all are proofs that humans are Omnivores from nature. 

 

I, as atheist, believe that Human made the religions, and it was again human who made the traditions, and these traditions change with time. 

 

I understand. 

Yes, it should be the morals for the fellow human beings. 

 

Nevertheless, there will always be some extremists who will even throw the cow bones and meat in the Mandir. 
Evil is a part of Human Nature too along with good. 

We will perhaps never be able to become perfect. 

 

I again understand. 

 

In Europe, Indian families are making Daal and using Indian spices along with Heeng (Asafetida). Europeans could not bear the smell of Asafetida. Actually they could not even bear the smell of Incense. 

 

Nevertheless, the law makes it obligatory upon them to live with their Indian/Pakistani neighbours and bear these smells. 

 

This world is not perfect unfortunately. Some times one has to make the compromises. 

No. They moove out and regularly,  racially abuse simply because they are white and see their countries under threat. Fooding habbit isnt to blame. 

 

Forget cooking, Try opening tiffin box in front of Indian women during lunch break at work. Half of them will get sick. Other half will never talk to you

Edited July 12, 2018 by mishra

[Singh bling]

32 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I don't think that making new Goshalas could work. Cows need a lot of grass, and there is simply not enough grass for them. 

 

People say that gobar could be used to produce more grass, but problem is this that there is not enough land for grass. The already available land and water is for cultivation. 

 

There is no solution to it. Wherever aggressive cow protection is promoted , farmers just shift to buffalo farming.

 

There is simple economics in this , cow milk is priced 25-35 in wholesalemarket while buffalo milk is 5-6 rupees higher .Now if cost of upkeeping old cows is added to cow milk then price will double.Now which fool will twice the price of cow milk when Buffalo milk is available much cheaper.

 

The only solution is encourage farmers for buffalo farming and discourage them from commercial cow farming.Only small organic cow farm which can sell milk at much higher price for affluent people

[Tobacco]

On 7/12/2018 at 4:27 PM, Alam_dar said:

According to Muslim Scholars this verse of "NO Compulsion" had been later abrogated by the "Verse of Sword" (i.e. to kill the Polytheists wherever they are found). 

According to Quran (Surah Tauba 29) only Ahle Kitab (i.e. Christians/Jews/Zoroastrians) will not be "compelled" to change their religion, but they are allowed to pay the Jizya and keep on practising their religion.

But as far as Polythests (which include all other groups except Ahle Kitaab... like Atheists) are concerned, then after verse of Sword, they will be "compelled" to either accept Islam, or they should be killed. 

The largest Islamic Fatwa website "Islam Question Answer" (which is run by Saudi Mufties) writes:

https://islamqa.info/en/34770

Question: 

Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 
“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers” 
[Yoonus 10:99] 
“There is no compulsion in religion” 
[al-Baqarah 2:256] 
What is your opinion concerning that?.

Answer:

The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken (i.e. Ahle Kitaab), such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah. 

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah (i.e. Ahle Kitaab). 
The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken (i.e. Ahle Kitaab), because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter ...
Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:5] 
 

Few more historical facts are as under:

(1) Verse of "No Compulsion" was revealed in the initial period of Madina when Muslims were weak. 

(2) Verse of Sword (i.e. Killing all the Mushrikeen) was revealed at the end in 9th Hijri, when Muslims got full power and control and no power was left in Arabia to stop the Muslims from it.

(3) Thus Muhammad killed all the Polytheists (Mushrikeen) in Arabia. This practice also continued during the era of Companions (Sahaba). 

(4) Then came Abu Hanifa, who was the first one who said it was only obligatory upon Prophet Muhammad to kill all the Mushrikeen, but now Muslims could also take Jizya from Polytheists and let them live. 

(5) But Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal and Imam Shafii and Imam Ibn Hazm contradicted this new fatwa of Abu Hanifa, while there was an Ijma of Companions (Sahaba) that Polytheists should be kept killing even after the death of Prophet Muhammad. 

Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqallani writes in his book "Fath-ul-Bari" (link):

وروى عبد بن حميد في تفسير سورة البروج بإسناد صحيح عن ابن أبزى " لما هزم المسلمون أهل فارس قال عمر : اجتمعوا . فقال : إن المجوس ليسوا أهل كتاب فنضع عليهم ، ولا من عبدة الأوثان فنجري عليهم أحكامهم فقال علي : بل هم أهل كتاب "’
Translation: 
According to an "authentic tradition" when Muslims defeated the Persians, then Umar Ibn Khattab (the 2nd Caliph) collected the Companions (Sahaba) and asked them that Zoroastrians are neither from people of book (Ahl-e-Kitaab) that we take Jizya from them, nor are they from Polytheists that we kill them. 
Upon that Ali Ibn Abi Talib (the 4th Caliph) witnessed that Zoroastrians are among the people of book.

And Saudi Mufti Albani graded this hadith of Sunnan Abu Dawud as "authentic" (link):

لم يكن عمر يأخذ الجزية من المجوس حتى شهد عبد الرحمن بن عوف أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أخذها من مجوس هجر . 
Translation:
Umar Ibn Khattab didn't want to take Jizya money from Zoroastrians (but wanted to kill them as Polytheists), but companion Abdul Rehman bin Auf told him that Prophet Muhammad took Jizya money from Zoroastrians too.

Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqallani also recorded the following "authentic" tradition (link):

وروى أبو عبيد بإسناد صحيح عن حذيفة " لولا أني رأيت أصحابي أخذوا الجزية من المجوس ما أخذتها "
Translation:
If my companions had not taken Jizya money from Zoroastrians, then I would have not taken it from them (but killed them as polytheists).

(6) If today any Islamic Caliphate is established from followers of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal (i.e. Salafies) or Imam Shafii, then once against this Islamic Caliphate is going to compel the Polytheists/Atheists to accept Islam or otherwise they will slaughter them. 

---

So this much to "No Compulsion". 

Actually compulsion is every where when a person is denied his basic human right and threatened to be killed if he leaves Islam. 

And compulsion is there when Non Muslims are not allowed to do Tableegh of their views and they will be killed if they do so.

This is not what I subscribe to in general terms. This may be true in a situation of war, where the enemies are to surrender, but hardly in a normal state where your masses are to be killed if they don't enter Islam.

 

Note, Muslims are to pay Zakaat in an Islamic state while non Muslims are not obligated to do the same. Jaziya was a tax that they instead paid in those days for security in return. 

 

Not practised in modern states with many forms of taxation now.

[Tobacco]

2 minutes ago, Tobacco said:

This is not what I subscribe to in general terms. This may be true in a situation of war, where the enemies are to surrender, but hardly in a normal state where your masses are to be killed if they don't enter Islam.

 

Note, Muslims are to pay Zakaat in an Islamic state while non Muslims are not obligated to do the same. Jaziya was a tax that they instead paid in those days for security in return. 

 

Not practised in modern states with many forms of taxation now.

Also, these quotations are devoid of context. Those verses of sword were revealed after multiple attacks on Muslims in the state of Madinah, which justified use of force  against the repeat offenders. 

[Tobacco]

Anyhow coming back to India Pakistan topic: 

I am glad that sane voices in India are calling upon the masses to wake up from nationalist hysteria that Modi and sensationalist media is inebriating the masses with: 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

This happened on Zee TV today. Maulana beating up a woman who has raised the TT issue.

 

 

 

[rageaddict]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

This happened on Zee TV today. Maulana beating up a woman who has raised the TT issue.

 

 

 

As the woman was the first one to raise hand,  she deserved it. 

 

Jab Maulvi ne do chaar ghumai toh uski saari garmi nikal gayi. 

[diga]

3 hours ago, rageaddict said:

As the woman was the first one to raise hand,  she deserved it. 

 

Jab Maulvi ne do chaar ghumai toh uski saari garmi nikal gayi. 

So the woman deserves it because she raised her hand...

 

[rageaddict]

7 minutes ago, diga said:

So the woman deserves it because she raised her hand...

 

If you don't want to get hit simply don't raise your hand first at someone.

 

Jyada feminist banane ki jarurat nahi hai. Simple concept hai.

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, rageaddict said:

If you don't want to get hit simply don't raise your hand first at someone.

 

Jyada feminist banane ki jarurat nahi hai. Simple concept hai.

Equality at it's most complete form.

[Alam_dar]

10 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

This happened on Zee TV today. Maulana beating up a woman who has raised the TT issue.

 

 

 

I am against this one sided propaganda. 

 

It was the lady who first slapped the Maulana, but Media and people is showing opposite picture if Maulana slapped her first. 

 

You have full right to be against Maulana or even Islam, but you don't have any right to be UNJUST.

I just hope people could understand the importance of Justice and Fairness. Hatred driven biased attitude and false propaganda are poisonous for the society. 

[coffee_rules]

13 hours ago, rageaddict said:

If you don't want to get hit simply don't raise your hand first at someone.

 

Jyada feminist banane ki jarurat nahi hai. Simple concept hai.

He could have shown her hypocrisy in a dignified manner instead of raising his hand like a road side mawaali. He kept egging her all through the show, she is one raising her voice against TT and he was defending it. 

[Clarke]

40 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

He could have shown her hypocrisy in a dignified manner instead of raising his hand like a road side mawaali. He kept egging her all through the show, she is one raising her voice against TT and he was defending it. 

She could have stuck to her words as well rather than having a swing at him. 

 

Unfortunate when an individual with a higher moral ground loses the same by resorting to such antics.

[coffee_rules]

20 minutes ago, Clarke said:

She could have stuck to her words as well rather than having a swing at him. 

  

Unfortunate when an individual with a higher moral ground loses the same by resorting to such antics.

May be. Agree she started it first and she loses the right to play victim card.

[Tobacco]

I am a little disappointed that this forum does not react much to the possibility of india pakistan talks. Unfortunately I am not allowed to post a thread so I have to post it inside another. But I feel that Indo Pak community must come together because the problems are just grave. 

 

For instance Kashmir has this huge problem brewing up which Indian intelligence admits is like NOTHING before. People are not scared of security forces even surrounded and the Indian Media itself admits that this problem is getting out of hand. I know this is a touchy issue and I intend to hit no nerves here but indifference is disappointing. 

 

Please see this 

 

[Tobacco]

and this (if this video below shows the same video as above, please click the link given under this video): 

 

 

Click this link here if you want to see the part 2 of the interview video embedded in the previous post. 

 

The title of this video is that current kashmir uprising is like NOTHING before; this is intelligence agencies speaking and not just random opinion. Indian public must not ignore this development with ISIS lurking in the region to exploit genuine grievances. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rTcMz_uuSw&index=4&list=PLU98PJIZ0JfJ4DiGE-1upez1PqlpoM9vX

 

[dial_100]

7 hours ago, Tobacco said:

I am a little disappointed that this forum does not react much to the possibility of india pakistan talks. Unfortunately I am not allowed to post a thread so I have to post it inside another. But I feel that Indo Pak community must come together because the problems are just grave. 

 

For instance Kashmir has this huge problem brewing up which Indian intelligence admits is like NOTHING before. People are not scared of security forces even surrounded and the Indian Media itself admits that this problem is getting out of hand. I know this is a touchy issue and I intend to hit no nerves here but indifference is disappointing. 

 

Please see this 

 

India cannot afford to lose Kashmir and definitely not to the terrorists. Just because they are in majority is not an entitlement for a separate state. Plus, ask your brothers to stop all the dramas. THese terrorist are sitting on the graves of native kashmiri pandits, Hindus and Sikhs. They would have had an outside chance (.0001%) of people supporting their religious separatism but they lost it 30-40 years ago when they massacred kashmiri pandits.  

[Muloghonto]

57 minutes ago, dial_100 said:

India cannot afford to lose Kashmir and definitely not to the terrorists. Just because they are in majority is not an entitlement for a separate state. Plus, ask your brothers to stop all the dramas. THese terrorist are sitting on the graves of native kashmiri pandits, Hindus and Sikhs. They would have had an outside chance (.0001%) of people supporting their religious separatism but they lost it 30-40 years ago when they massacred kashmiri pandits.  

you are mistaken. We have an 'out of sight/out of mind' mentality towards past problems, especially when they are not our own.

The only reason the Kashmiri seperatists have not had much takers in the west is because of politics of the Cold War (where the west did not want to push India decisively in the Soviet camp) and then the western atipathy towards Islam currently.

However, if the western ultra-progressives become the majority (which is likely in the future), then they will take a 'whats done is done, it cannot be changed, but what can be changed, is that a bunch of people over there want independence and you are oppressing them'.

 

India cannot afford to sit around and do nothing, we HAVE to start altering the religious demographics of Kashmir.