Pandya v. Bhuvneshwar - the better choice of allrounder?

[goose]

Who is your choice for allrounder? Since Sydney is coming up next, and two spinners is a possibility, which one of these two is your pick to join Bumrah, Shami, Jadeja, Kuldeep? 

[zen]

I don’t rate Bhuvi as an AR. Pandya has shown in various formats that he has the ability to hit 100s (and his batting would have been an asset in Aus) and bowls well with the new ball (usually bowls 8-10 overs with the old ball to give rest to key pace bowlers when the new ball is around the corner) 

 

Pandya as a batsman is better. Pandya as a bowler with a relatively new ball is competitive. Moreover, his extra pace can be useful in such conditions 

[Real McCoy]

Neither. Pandya is young. He needs to be consistent with his allrounder tag. Bhuvi is a good lower order bat but he is not an allrounder per se.

[goose]

Bhuvneshwar's last 4 innings with the bat:

 

30 from 114 balls - Jburg

30 from 72 balls - Jburg

13* from 62 balls - Cape Town

25 from 112 balls - Cape Town

 

He is our Pat Cummins.

 

[goose]

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Neither. Pandya is young. He needs to be consistent with his allrounder tag. Bhuvi is a good lower order bat but he is not an allrounder per se.

It's perception. Players that have bowling as their stronger suit are rarely known as allrounders. It's irrational though.

[Real McCoy]

1 minute ago, zen said:

I don’t rate Bhuvi as an AR. Pandya has shown in various formats that he has the ability to hit 100s (and his batting would have been an asset in Aus) and bowls well with the new ball (usually bowls 8-10 overs with the old ball to give rest to key pace bowlers when the new ball is around the corner) 

 

Pandya as a batsman is better. Pandya as a bowler with a relatively new ball is competitive. Moreover, his extra pace can be useful in such conditions 

Pandya isnt Bumrah. He cant bowl 8-10 overs on the trot and keep his pace. He will trundle in his second or third spell. But like you said Ishant is also like that. But Ishant has one key for him - his height. He can generate bounce but he too trundles in the later spells.

[Temujin Khaghan]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

I don’t rate Bhuvi as an AR. Pandya has shown in various formats that he has the ability to hit 100s (and his batting would have been an asset in Aus) and bowls well with the new ball (usually bowls 8-10 overs with the old ball to give rest to key pace bowlers when the new ball is around the corner) 

 

Pandya as a batsman is better. Pandya as a bowler with a relatively new ball is competitive. Moreover, his extra pace can be useful in such conditions 

Pandya can be developed in the line of stokes and bhuvi as woakes...

[Real McCoy]

4 minutes ago, goose said:

Bhuvneshwar's last 4 innings with the bat:

 

30 from 114 balls - Jburg

30 from 72 balls - Jburg

13* from 62 balls - Cape Town

25 from 112 balls - Cape Town

 

He is our Pat Cummins.

 

I love Bhuvi but he is nowhere near Cummins when it comes to bowling or batting. Good joke

[zen]

6 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Pandya isnt Bumrah. He cant bowl 8-10 overs on the trot and keep his pace. He will trundle in his second or third spell. But like you said Ishant is also like that. But Ishant has one key for him - his height. He can generate bounce but he too trundles in the later spells.

If you look at “performance in SEA” thread. Both have similar SRs

 

Ishant usually bowls with the new ball. Pandya gets to make use of the relatively soft ball and with a mindset to bowl those fill in overs. Pandya’s performance improves when he bowls with a harder ball 

 

Apples to apples would be both bowling with the new / newish ball where Pandya can become competitive 

Edited December 30, 2018 by zen

[Real McCoy]

2 minutes ago, Temujin Khaghan said:

Pandya can be developed in the line of stokes and bhuvi as woakes...

You can dream but eventually have to come back to reality

[goose]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

If you look at “performance in SEA” thread. Both have similar SRs

 

Ishant usually bowls with the new ball. Pandya gets to make use of the relatively soft ball and with a mindset to bowl those fill in overs. Pandya’s performance improves when he bowls with a harder ball 

I'll have a word with the ICC...see if we can have Pandya's bowling figures adjusted upwards to take account of the soft ball

[Real McCoy]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

If you look at performance in SEA thread. Both have similar SRs

 

Ishant usually bowls with the new ball. Pandya gets to make use of the relatively soft ball. Pandya’s performance improves when he bowls with a harder ball 

Lets agree to disagree. Im in for no change for the next test barring any drastic pitch conditions on the morning of the test.

[vvvslaxman]

Bhuvi is good with new ball. Bhuvi's weakness is his 2nd spell and after. Pandya can still clock 135k in his 3rd or 4th spell. I mean he used to. I don't know about him now as he is returning after injury. Bhuvi has the tendency to lose speed as the game goes on. 

[zen]

1 minute ago, goose said:

I'll have a word with the ICC...see if we can have Pandya's bowling figures adjusted upwards to take account of the soft ball

Even with the handicap, his SR is good (similar to Ishant’s for e.g in SEA 

[zen]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bhuvi is good with new ball. Bhuvi's weakness is his 2nd spell and after. Pandya can still clock 135k in his 3rd or 4th spell. I mean he used to. I don't know about him now as he is returning after injury. Bhuvi has the tendency to lose speed as the game goes on. 

Iirc, Pandya took a 5-er recently (post injury) 

Edited December 30, 2018 by zen

[Pollack]

Neither bhuvi nor Pandya is an all-rounder. Pandya is a utility player. Bhuvi is a bowler who can sometimes bat a bit. Sometimes a bit more but still no all-rounder. If I have to pick one in the team in Australia, I would pick Pandya since he has potential to pick wickets when there is some extra bounce since he doesn't trundler and his natural length is a bit short.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Bhuvi cannot play as all rounder he has to get in team with his bowling , his batting has evolved with exp which will happen with pandya also. 

In seaming condition , pandya can be very handy if given a new or comparitvely new ball . Bhuvi obv is a better bowler n survivor with bat but at the end batsman has to make most runs and thats what pandya can do better. Bhuvi can do max 50-60 most days but pandya can go 100+ with bat 

[Real McCoy]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bhuvi is good with new ball. Bhuvi's weakness is his 2nd spell and after. Pandya can still clock 135k in his 3rd or 4th spell. I mean he used to. I don't know about him now as he is returning after injury. Bhuvi has the tendency to lose speed as the game goes on. 

I Agree 100%. Add the kookaburra ball to the equation. That means unless its a green pitch dont play Bhuvi. And Pandya's speed needs to be checked after the injury. That's why it is unwise to play him in Sydney.

[goose]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Even with the handicap, his SR is good (similar to Ishant’s for e.g in SEA 

What about Bhuv's batting? his exclusion in the first test in SA was roundly ridiculed. Why has everyone seemingly forgotten?

 

Bhuvi had added pace and improved his batting. If there's any swing around he will find it. 

 

[zen]

4 minutes ago, goose said:

What about Bhuv's batting? his exclusion in the first test in SA was roundly ridiculed. Why has everyone seemingly forgotten?

 

Bhuvi had added pace and improved his batting. If there's any swing around he will find it. 

 

Bhuvi is a decent lower order batsman and can be played as one of the specialist bowlers, who can bat a bit too, in conditions that favor swing 

 

Pandya is a better batsman (you can see his record in various formats) and would be played as the 3rd or 4th seamer based on team combination and conditions 

Edited December 30, 2018 by zen