Who should bat at #4 in the WC?

[vvvslaxman]

Lobbying is a big role in these things. Look at how these Manjrekakars, Gavaskars, Vengskarkars all these kars keep projecting Rahane as a viable choice. If it were upto them they will even include SK Yadav

[zen]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Now, since we know that Indian team can't just pull out a Jos Buttler or Dre Rus out of their rear-end, let's see if its realistic to try and improve run-production in the 1st 10.  We average 45 runs in the 1st 10 overs.  That is as trash as it gets.  And its directly due to the "get your eye in, bat big" strategy, especially by the awesomely talented, but badly spoilt and over-indulged ball-eater Rohit Sharma. 

How we do in PP would be one of the keys to our success esp. since it sets the tone for the game as well! 

Edited April 17, 2019 by zen

[Zero_Unit]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

To me, we have plenty of batting resources who are capable of addressing this low-hanging fruit of a problem.  Instead of asking newbies to come in later in the innings, and "deliver" consistently with high strike rates, its far more realistic to expect someone like a KL Rahul, to come in and attack the bowlers in the 1st powerplay.   Let Kohli keep doing his kohli thing and own the middle overs.  

I donno what you're talking bout mate. Rahul ain't no attacking player from the get go. He too takes time to settle down. If he was a player who regularly played with a SR of 100 ish, fair game and fair point. But what's the point of Rahul at 3 when he will play the same role as Kohli was? If another Sehwag pops out in the near future, hallelujah! Problem solved.

 

We all share your feelings of us having world class batsmen in the dugout but not getting fair chances but that doesn't mean you go to worldcup and start tweaking. That's what preparation before the WC should have been about - try xyz at 3 and push Captain down to 4. Even a smallest tweak can sometimes off balance the team's rythm when not practiced in advanced.

[swastikpanda2]

Virat Kohli won the WC-11 and that U-19 WC when he batted at No. 4

No.3 Virat Kohli is Panauti for the team in WCs.

Edited April 17, 2019 by swastikpanda2

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Matching eng with the bat is impossible,it will only get us into trouble.

+1  It is not a overnight thing. They have been doing that since 2015 world cup.  If you ask me mental strength is as much important in a world cup. Otherwise how can you explain their pathetic batting against Pakistan in the CT. They froze against spin and Hasan Ali. We just have to be at our best not England's best.  

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022371/england-vs-pakistan-1st-semi-final-icc-champions-trophy-2017

[swastikpanda2]

8 minutes ago, Zero_Unit said:

I donno what you're talking bout mate. Rahul ain't no attacking player from the get go. He too takes time to settle down. If he was a player who regularly played with a SR of 100 ish, fair game and fair point. But what's the point of Rahul at 3 when he will play the same role as Kohli was? If another Sehwag pops out in the near future, hallelujah! Problem solved.

 

We all share your feelings of us having world class batsmen in the dugout but not getting fair chances but that doesn't mean you go to worldcup and start tweaking. That's what preparation before the WC should have been about - try xyz at 3 and push Captain down to 4. Even a smallest tweak can sometimes off balance the team's rythm when not practiced in advanced.

Should try Kohli at 4 once in a warm up match. I would prefer to play Rahul as a floater. At No. 3 when a wicket goes within 15 overs. Otherwise Kohli at 3.

[putrevus]

Runs scored in PP have no bearing at all. 45/0 in power play is just fine for this team. They don't have Morgan and Butler waiting in wings.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by putrevus

[jusarrived]

31 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

+1  It is not a overnight thing. They have been doing that since 2015 world cup.  If you ask me mental strength is as much important in a world cup. Otherwise how can you explain their pathetic batting against Pakistan in the CT. They froze against spin and Hasan Ali. We just have to be at our best not England's best.  

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8037/scorecard/1022371/england-vs-pakistan-1st-semi-final-icc-champions-trophy-2017

Some common sense would also help . In a KO match , we need to stop blindly opt chasing . This was true even we had a a great chasing side , now it’s  plain stupid . 

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Some common sense would also help . In a KO match , we need to stop blindly opt chasing . This was true even we had a a great chasing side , now it’s  plain stupid . 

Thats is so true Kohli has to stop chasing in big games.

[bowl_out]

One of the few WC where our bowling is strong than our batting

[PSB_Zone]

Rohit at 4 will not be a bad option .He can clear the field easily. Rohit is not the same which he was 7 years ago..

 

Kl/dhawan/kohli/rohit/dhoni/Jadhav/pandya/Kuldeep/Chahal/shami/bumrah

[Ankit_sharma03]

39 minutes ago, PSB_Zone said:

Rohit at 4 will not be a bad option .He can clear the field easily. Rohit is not the same which he was 7 years ago..

 

Kl/dhawan/kohli/rohit/dhoni/Jadhav/pandya/Kuldeep/Chahal/shami/bumrah

Rohit hasnt changed, its just that opening suited his game and no.4 didnt.........if he goes back to no.4 he ll fail again

[SrinjayDutta]

Everyone is talking about England but I think their ultra aggressive approach will haunt them in 1 crucial knock out game. Also, the expectation on them is incredible.  From WC to WC, only us and eng have a 2 w/l ratio. I think this world cup is winnable despite the slow run rate from Ind at top. We have to keep faith on our bowling and aim to chase 250-300 in big matches by fielding first. 1st thing is to beat subcontinental teams,wi etc and qualify.  You will also notice that eng bowling line up is a list of pie chuckers..they accept the fate of conceding 300+. Ind can take advantage of that. Aus would be bigger threat to us atm. I wish ind focus on scoring higher in 30-40 overs to get good scores.

 

My choice of 4 is dhoni, as I think any place lower, he will affect the run rate beyond control. He tends to target certain bowlers nowadays to get runs.middle overs would be better suited for that than the specialists at the end.

The only place for rahul is at the top where he excels if he is set. So strictly a backup opener for me. Such a shame and waste of talent. My 5,6,7 at the beginning of WC is kedar, hardik and Shankar with 3 Pacers and kuldeep to follow. Gives us maximum firepower and all rounders.

[SrinjayDutta]

Kohli, pandya,bumrah,shami, any 1 of the openers..these are the most crucial players for us. If they play well, we win the cup. Particularly pandya  if he contributes crucially at the death with bat and picks up 1 wicket in the middle overs every match. He sometimes get lucky with his short balls...hope that happens.

[SK_IH]

16 hours ago, sandeep said:

Rahul is doing that given his poor form in the run-up, and a slightly different role in the KXIP lineup.  

 

I do not expect this "methodical" lineup to do much, if anything out of the box.  Its not as if I have unreasonable expectations of winning the WC or anything - win or lose, what bothers me, is that the team is not putting its best foot forward in attempting to win.  For reasons, absent direct first-hand knowledge, appear to be non-cricket (i.e. $$$) based.  Call me a cynic, but I can see the game being played behind the game.  And its disappointing to the passionate fan within me.

can you be more precise? what are you implying?

[sandeep]

6 hours ago, SK_IH said:

can you be more precise? what are you implying?

How much more can I spell it out?  Virat, his farmhouse buddy, his agent's jamai, aren't giving up the ODI top order slots because the financial rewards for batting there and putting up gaudy individual scores are huge.  So all 'new' batsmen to the team are relegated to batting in the last 20 overs, asked to drag par or sub-par team scores from the moment they get to the crease.  The question of horses for courses, using players in positions where their skills can be milked to maximum team benefit, does not enter the equation.  

To all reasonably informed observers of ODI cricket, its been obvious for more than 2 years, that England have created a very successful model of ODI batting.  And that India need to update their batting tactics.  We are not Pakistan or Sri Lanka, i.e. we are not lacking for quality LOI batsmen.  Its an execution issue, not a skill or talent issue.  And its one that is intentionally self-inflicted.  Because we are still winning a good chunk of games with the "safe" method.  Why rock the boat?  Let VadaPao boy score another 200, Virat rack up another dozen ODI centuries that don't really matter.  Why bother using the 2 years of ODI games to try and make the team stronger, adopt a more attacking game plan, especially when batting first?  

 

Should Hardik Pandya be given more opportunities to bat higer up the order, in the important 30-40 over timeframe, so that he can figure out how he can adapt to play longer innings, which may be needed in a crunch WC game?   Should a Mayank agarwal, or a KL Rahul, or a Rishabh be deployed at the top of the ODI batting lineup, to try and attack the bowlers, and setup a 400 score?    

 

These things have been obvious to try - for the last 20+ months.  But nope.  Its a nice gig - Kuptaan Wrogn is making millions, Rohit and Dhawan are getting good advertising $$$, Bunty Sajdeh is happy.  Shastri is there to rubber-stamp everything.  

Edited April 18, 2019 by sandeep

[sandeep]

21 hours ago, putrevus said:

Runs scored in PP have no bearing at all. 45/0 in power play is just fine for this team. They don't have Morgan and Butler waiting in wings.

 

 

45/0 is just fine?  Again.  Please "ask Alexa" what date it is.  Hint: Its not 2011.  

[bowl_out]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

45/0 is just fine?  Again.  Please "ask Alexa" what date it is.  Hint: Its not 2011.  

We scored more than 45 in the powerplays in 2011 as well, with Sehwag and Sachin opening.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

45/0 is just fine?  Again.  Please "ask Alexa" what date it is.  Hint: Its not 2011.  

How many you need, you tail cannot score and you don't have a middle order. 45/0 is better than 80/2 in India's case.Unless top3 end up with 500 plus runs each, India is going nowhere in this cup.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

We scored more than 45 in the powerplays in 2011 as well, with Sehwag and Sachin opening.

2011 was loaded lineup which could sustain early wickets and still chase 270 plus. Do you think this line up will chase the same score 270 plus from 20/2 in any match.