England vs Pakistan | 4th ODI | Trent Bridge, Nottingham | May 17, 2019 | Match thread |

[zen]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

That trust can only come with time - if he gets opportunities and converts them.  To his credit, he has done quite well in the limited chances he did get in NZ.   One of those was a pressure situation with a collapse, and he came in and batted quite fluently.   Deserved at least a 50, but was quite unlucky to be runout.   There is an assuredness to his batting that is encouraging to see.  Ultimately, it will be his production he should be judged on, and not how he looks, or how he makes you feel.  And he has had a nice bright start to his fledgling ODI career.  

 

I also think his "newness" to the circuit, works in his favor a bit, for the WC.  Teams haven't really worked out his strong and weak scoring areas - they may manage to, as the WC goes on, given the number of games.  But there's enough quality there, to be optimistic.  

Let's hope so. Though I do not go by technique alone. I watch for approach, shot selection, body language including confidence, etc.. In IPL for example, I was able to foresee his failure including suggesting that the swap by DC for Dhawan was a good move in the context of this season .... Needs to improve the mental aspect of the game to succeed at the highest level 

 

On paper, guys like Shankar should be doing better with the bat than Sehwag, Dhoni, Pant, and Pandya, but these guys have that X factor (Sehwag and Dhoni had that in their prime), which players like Shankar lack at the moment. As I said, needs to pull up his socks 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

What about last 12-15 months. 

 

Zen is being a bit harsh on him, Rohit is a legit top ODI opener, but with glaring strike rotation issues, especially in the 1st 10-15 overs.  All said and done, I wouldn't trade him for any other team's openers, except maybe England's.  

As long as Rohit and Dhawan complement each other we are good. Both don't have to go after bowling. Dhawan is very good inside power play. Outside power play ROhit is better.  We don't have to go with this fixed mindset of going at certain rate inside power play.  INdia has been winning more matches than other teams (besides England) with this approach.  Our strength is bowling. We should make sure we don't mess that one up. We are not a 350 plus team. Sure we have scored a lot of time. Very rarely we scored 300 without contribution from top 3. 

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Our strength is bowling. We should make sure we don't mess that one up.

Agreed.

 

10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

We are not a 350 plus team

By choice.  That's what bothers me.  

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

Let's hope so. Though I do not go by technique alone. I watch for approach, shot selection, body language including confidence, etc.. In IPL for example, I was able to foresee his failure including suggesting that the swap by DC for Dhawan was a good move in the context of this season .... Needs to improve the mental aspect of the game to succeed at the highest level 

 

On paper, guys like Shankar should be doing better with the bat than Sehwag, Dhoni, Pant, and Pandya, but these guys have that X factor (Sehwag and Dhoni had that in their prime), which players like Shankar lack at the moment. As I said, needs to pull up his socks 

 

 

IPL?  We are talking about ODI cricket here.  Come on gujju bhai.  Very different format.  I know we are all keyed in on England scoring 370 every other game,  but ODI cricket is still ODI cricket.

[maniac]

48 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

didnt he make 76 in 43 balls in Ct 2017 final, stokes made 71 in 64

so hows is stokes innings better, pandya played a much better knock only to be ended by an idiot 

 

In before u say coz england won, well the diff was due to other not pandya or stokes 

Our 2nd n 3rd highest scorers made - 22 n 23 and england's -114, 43......

 

Pandya made another 70 against aus in chennai when dhoni also made runs with him hence we made a good total, so one player cant do much. 

For Pandya to win that match he would have had to play the greatest innings in the entire history of cricket. He had no batting left and while yes it was disappointing the way the innings ended, we knew that it was time that he would eventually fall short. One must be really delusional to think he could have won that game on his own that day. It was a hopeless situation and he was having some fun and yes it was brilliant to watch.

 

Stokes knock came in a back to the wall situation where it was a tricky chase. All it needed was a mix of aggression and calculation. It was a fantastic knock.

 

Are you serious comparing both the knocks and situations WTF. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by maniac

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, sandeep said:

Agreed.

 

By choice.  That's what bothers me.  

I won't say choice. with 4 rank tailenders risks have to be more calculated  than other teams. WHen you add the aging Dhoni, unpredictable Jadhav, unkonwn no.4 in the mix we are not  a 350 plus side. Even if they throw the bat around even if we keep losing wickets then we will get bowled out for 200 in 25 overs.  India is a solid side. Not a dangerous side like the past sides where Raina would bat at 7, Dhoni at 6, Yuvraj 5, Kohli 4, Gambhir 3, Sehwag/Sachin 1/2.  We have to look at the worst case scenario. Even today England was reduced to 210/5 getting out to fairly innocuous deliveries. Pandya/Dhoni batting 20 overs. How do you think innings would have gone as they are one wicket away from getting blown away. India will have to percentage cricket at the risk of getting 15 to 20 runs below par. You should be prepared because you have a gun bowling unit that can restrict opposition below par total. If our bowling is not good enough to restrict opposition below par then  we cannot expect the batsmen to compensate for their inadequacies. Very reason India tolerates the pathetic fielding batting of our tailenders is because they are supposed to restrict the opposition. They cannot afford to fail at all.

[zen]

24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

IPL?  We are talking about ODI cricket here.  Come on gujju bhai.  Very different format.  I know we are all keyed in on England scoring 370 every other game,  but ODI cricket is still ODI cricket.

 

 

I am referring to particular aspects 

Edited May 17, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

IPL?  We are talking about ODI cricket here.  Come on gujju bhai.  Very different format.  I know we are all keyed in on England scoring 370 every other game,  but ODI cricket is still ODI cricket.

IPL is designed for hacks where you get to face one or two overs from the best bowlers at the most in a row. You can get away with so much of inadequacies. One handed six, off balanced boundary will not work in the one dayer. You need to rotate strike, pinch single, read the situation and execute your plan. 

[Dil Dil India]

Sharma has been striking at LESS THAN 80 in 2019 ODIs. Let's not pretend there isn't an issue. He's turned into a gun ODI bat (in bilaterals and vs Bangladesh in tournaments) but let's not pretend there aren't glaring holes. The issue is given slow poke Thala and the joke of a middle order we have, Rohit isn't even close to being the most pressing issue.

[vvvslaxman]

I remember England went nuts against India in the first 8 overs at Bristol. In 7.3 overs they were like 98/1. But they wimped their way to reach 194 in the end with flurry of wickets by Pandya and others.  

 

Rohit put on an exhibition chasing that down without breaking sweat @maniac  :)

 

[zen]

In this WC, the key reason to support Ind is "it is your team". Otherwise, the team did zilch in planning effectively for the WC and as usual, would be left to rely on the brilliance of selected individuals to take it across the line. On the other hand, teams like Eng appears to have planned their approach well including creating a possible spot for Archer. Even in this series, they are rotating key players so everyone in the squad hits form 

 

Ind could not even consider playing Pant in top order, Pandya at #5, and so on. In the Asia Cup too, you kept wondering over some of the selections. Some players who were being tried did not even get a full series

Edited May 17, 2019 by zen

[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, Kothili said:

Windies is the dark horse.

They are not even able to beat Bangladesh right now. They are perfect for t20s. But they don't have the same firepower in Odis.

[zen]

Just now, Laaloo said:

They are not even able to beat Bangladesh right now. They are perfect for t20s. But they don't have the same firepower in Odis.

Some of their key players were not playing though!

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Kothili said:

Sarfraz's stupidity is only matched by that of our Psycho's. He could have handed the ball to Hafeez to bowl the 49th. Psycho would have handed it to Umesh. But still he is first among equals. 

Saar kohli jote nimma tumba outtuva.. samasye en saar ?  svalpa details share madi pls.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

For Pandya to win that match he would have had to play the greatest innings in the entire history of cricket. He had no batting left and while yes it was disappointing the way the innings ended, we knew that it was time that he would eventually fall short. One must be really delusional to think he could have won that game on his own that day. It was a hopeless situation and he was having some fun and yes it was brilliant to watch.

 

Stokes knock came in a back to the wall situation where it was a tricky chase. All it needed was a mix of aggression and calculation. It was a fantastic knock.

 

Are you serious comparing both the knocks and situations WTF. 

UR the one who started to say he hasnt played an innings like that.......i showed u he had and much better one just didnt get the support

And this mix of aggression n calculation comes with time.....stokes is far exp then pandya