Gollum Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Sounds like a concocted story. The courts modified the rules about Juvenile after the Nirbhaya case with the Juvenile justice Act 2015. The Juvenile criminal was send to a maximum of three years sentence in a juvenile reform facility, and not a regular jail. Very unlikely that this guy was in a cell with a terrorist. In the Indian penitentiary system, terror convicts are mainly held incommunicado from other prisoners. Where did you get this news from? Even the terrorist was a juvenile. Many links to back my post.... Nirbhaya rapist sparks intel alert, Police suspect juvenile in touch with Islamic radicals Quote The Intelligence Bureau in its report flagged the proximity of the youngest perpetrator of 2012 gangrape to a Kashmiri inmate who was involved in the 2011 Delhi high court bombing while he was at the juvenile home. he Intelligence Bureau (IB) has issued a fresh alert over suspected jihadi links of the youngest perpetrator of 2012 fatal gangrape in Delhi who was released in December as he was a minor when the crime was committed, sources told Mail Today. Authorities in Uttar Pradesh have been advised to keep a close watch on his movements as the man, now 21, hails from the state's Badaun district. He ended his three-year term in a reform home six months ago after being held guilty along with five others for the brutal attack on a 23-year-old woman, dubbed Nirbhaya, in a case that prompted nationwide revulsion and turned global spotlight on crimes against women in India. "Recently some activity was noticed and we informed the local authorities," said an intelligence official, without saying anything about the man's present whereabouts. TERROR CONNECTIONS Before his release in December 2015, the IB flagged his proximity at the juvenile home to a Kashmiri inmate who was involved in the 2011 Delhi high court bombing. The two shared the same room for over a year and the cellmate allegedly indoctrinated him and prompted him to take up the cause of Kashmiris. "There is no specific input but whatever assistance is required will be provided by us," said Sunil Saxena, senior superintendent of police, Badaun. CALLS FOR ARREST Hundreds of people, including Nirbhaya's parents, had staged protests in the Capital against the convict's release with the campaign spurring Parliament to pass legislation lowering to 16 the age at which someone can be tried for serious crimes. His radicalisation was also pitched as one of the reasons to stop his release. The convict himself expressed fears that he may be lynched once he is set free. BJP leader Subramanian Swamy also approached the Delhi high court but the judges rejected his plea saying the sentence complied with existing law. "Having regard to the fact that the maximum stay that can be directed in the Special Home under Section 15(1) of the Juvenile Justice Act is three years and that the convict would be completing the period of three years by December 20, 2015, there cannot be any direction to continue his stay in the special home beyond December 20. Hence, we decline to issue any direction as prayed by the petitioner," the bench said while allowing the convict to walk free. The Intelligence Bureau in its report prior to his release last year said that taking advantage of his proximity to the rape convict, the Kashmiri youth brainwashed him and motivated him to join jihad in Kashmir. As per the instructions of the union home ministry, the rape convict went through counseling sessions for de-radicalisation. A trial court awarded the death penalty to the four adult accused in the Nirbhaya gangrape case for the gruesome act. The woman was sexually assaulted on a moving bus and sustained serious internal injuries after being violated with an iron bar during the attack. The Delhi high court upheld the sentence and the matter is now pending in the Supreme Court. One of the five accused, Ram Singh, committed suicide in the city's Tihar Jail three years ago. Another LINK Quote In 2015, it was suspected that the juvenile had been radicalised because he shared his cell with another juvenile who was involved in Delhi High Court blast case. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Thanks @Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Mariyam said: I do not know what kind of evidence the police were able to collate. Sperm samples? I doubt, given that the victim was found in a charred state. But then again, I am no expert. The cops haven't really made any disclosures about the case even after it is over. Meh. As an Indian I understand. We have two epics who’s main central nexus moral is following the letter of the law regardless of consequence or common sense ( Ramayana) vs perverting the law to serve natural justice ( Mahabharata). And I lean towards the latter. Law exists to serve justice, not the other way round. diga 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Mariyam said: The cold hard fact is that no ritual slaughtering takes place in people's homes. Animal sacrifice is not a pillar of Islam. It isn't a mandatory act of faith. Also, this notion that all kids are called out and made to witness the slaughter is comical. It is nothing of the sort. Most parents do not wish their kids to witness the act. People's homes also includes their gali....animal for qurbani is purchased and brought to the homes, kids frequently witness the slaughter and processing of the dead body. sergio04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted_User_1 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) For a developing nation and the most powerful democracy (whatever that means) in Southeast Asia, India has become a Phucking sick country. Value of a human life means nothing especially if you are a woman. For a country that has so much to offer in culture, arts, history and food, all we hear is this perversion and violence towards women including children. Shame on this society. There are just too many people for the acreage that the country has. As long as there is too many people, there will be hordes who do not value human life, have a perverted and/or backward view of the female gender. These people do not belong in a modern society. As long as there is a large section of the population poor and ignorant, there is no hope for this God forsaken country! Edited December 11, 2019 by Audiophile velu and beetle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 ^ danda... population density of Bangladesh is more than India if I recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Mariyam said: The cold hard fact is that no ritual slaughtering takes place in people's homes. Not even in backyards? Dunno about your experience but in middle class societies slaughtering takes place within compiunds of Muslim families. Don't want to divert, but isn't yours a blanket statement? I don't mind these slaughtering rituals be it Bakrid or bali in temples...as long as the meat isn't wasted. But better to keep children away from such gory scenes and hire professional butchers. Edited December 10, 2019 by Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 On 12/6/2019 at 9:55 AM, FischerTal said: One of my favorite quotes from The Dark Knight, "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain". I feel like thats how most Indians feel about this issue of rape now and they are willing to pardon cops for vigilante behavior just like the Batman was involved in. I recently heard a quote that I loved If Bruce Wayne (who is an influential citizen ) does his job properly there won’t be a need for a batman. Applies to our police and judiciary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) On 12/10/2019 at 7:14 AM, Gollum said: Not even in backyards? Dunno about your experience but in middle class societies slaughtering takes place within compiunds of Muslim families. Don't want to divert, but isn't yours a blanket statement? No offence to Mariyam ji , neither its sarcasm, but you should by now, have understood that @Mariyam Ji aristocratic lady. Edited December 12, 2019 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, mishra said: No offence to Mariyam ji , neither its sarcasm, but you should by now, have understood that @Mariyam Ji aristocratic lady. Yeah I know @Mariyam is aristocratic, owns factories, mingles with Bollywood celebs, buys shoes in London, jackets from Paris, hair-styling in Macau etc...giving her my humble perspective as middle class dude. She probably has peasants like us employed as gardener, driver, watchman, painter etc. By 'us'don't mean @velu, he too is Richie Rich. SM hai aur ham sab anonymous hai, isliye e-darshan dete hai....asli duniya mein muh doosri taraf kar denge . Edited December 12, 2019 by Gollum Mariyam and mishra 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 @randomGuy @Gollum Most families cannot afford an animal to sacrifice. A goat is in the range of 50,000-70,000 Rs and during Eid the black market mafia ensure that the prices shoot up. It is generally the entire housing society that has shell out money to buy an animal. Most of the times, the qurbani is done in the gali/garage/backyard and not in the homes, after creating an enclosure of sorts. And again, most of the times the kids are nowhere in the picture. I have no idea where you guys get this idea that the qurbani and subsequent skinning of and chopping of the animal is done in front of kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Gollum said: Yeah I know @Mariyam is aristocratic, owns factories, mingles with Bollywood celebs, buys shoes in London, jackets from Paris, hair-styling in Macau etc...giving her my humble perspective as middle class dude. She probably has peasants like us employed as gardener, driver, watchman, painter etc. By 'us'don't mean @velu, he too is Richie Rich. SM hai aur ham sab anonymous hai, isliye e-darshan dete hai....asli duniya mein muh doosri taraf kar denge . Reminds me of the song "Pappu can't dance saala". You've basically used similar ideas. Rado ki ghadi haathon mein Perfume Gucci wala Pappu ke paas hai mba, Haii... Yeahhh yeahhh... Karta hai France mein holiday, Haii... Yeahhh yeahhh... Pappu guitar bajata hai, Haii... Yeahhh yeahhh... Jahan jaata hai chaa jaata hai... But pappu can't dance saala Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mariyam said: @randomGuy @Gollum Most families cannot afford an animal to sacrifice. A goat is in the range of 50,000-70,000 Rs and during Eid the black market mafia ensure that the prices shoot up. It is generally the entire housing society that has shell out money to buy an animal. Most of the times, the qurbani is done in the gali/garage/backyard and not in the homes, after creating an enclosure of sorts. And again, most of the times the kids are nowhere in the picture. I have no idea where you guys get this idea that the qurbani and subsequent skinning of and chopping of the animal is done in front of kids. I said 'backyard'. I never mentioned kids though I have seen many kids in videos/images. My neighbors used to be a Muslim family, they would do it in the backyard after making enclosure with clothes but from 1st floor it would be visible. I am not averse to bali/sacrifice....read my post, wasn't talking just about Eid but sacrifices in general. Have seen my share of them in Bengal and IMO some precautions should be taken to make it less traumatic for everyone involved. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mariyam said: Reminds me of the song "Pappu can't dance saala". You've basically used similar ideas. Rado ki ghadi haathon mein Perfume Gucci wala Pappu ke paas hai mba, Haii... Yeahhh yeahhh... Karta hai France mein holiday, Haii... Yeahhh yeahhh... Pappu guitar bajata hai, Haii... Yeahhh yeahhh... Jahan jaata hai chaa jaata hai... But pappu can't dance saala But you can dance, I remember you once said you attended classes of Shaimak Dhawar, some name like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) On 12/10/2019 at 3:13 AM, Muloghonto said: Meh. As an Indian I understand. We have two epics who’s main central nexus moral is following the letter of the law regardless of consequence or common sense ( Ramayana) vs perverting the law to serve natural justice ( Mahabharata). And I lean towards the latter. Law exists to serve justice, not the other way round. You are mistaking revenge for closure, in this specific instance. Do you think extra judicial killing is going to be a deterrent? Studies have proven otherwise. Some studies (not necessarily in the Indian context) have shown that places with death penalty for rape have resulted in the rapes being more brutal and the victim getting killed so as to not have evidence of the crime. The problem we have is societal. It can't be cured by just having more draconian laws and quite literally, in this case, shooting from the hip. Edited December 12, 2019 by Mariyam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mariyam said: You are mistaking closure with revenge, in this specific instance. Do you think extra judicial killing is going to be a deterrent? Studies have proven otherwise. Some studies (not necessarily in the Indian context) have shown that places with death penalty for rape have resulted in the rapes being more brutal and the victim getting killed so as to not have evidence of the crime. The problem we have is societal. It can't be cured by just having more draconian laws and quite literally, in this case, shooting from the hip. You can't defeat mulo in a debate, but good luck trying to outlast that Honey Badger. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gollum said: I said 'backyard'. I never mentioned kids though I have seen many kids in videos/images. My neighbors used to be a Muslim family, they would do it in the backyard after making enclosure with clothes but from 1st floor it would be visible. I am not averse to bali/sacrifice....read my post, wasn't talking just about Eid but sacrifices in general. Have seen my share of them in Bengal and IMO some precautions should be taken to make it less traumatic for everyone involved. My bad. I misread. But fair enough to say that I've lived among Muslims a lot more than you have, and as a result of my experiences, I find it very funny when people say that children are intentionally subjected to the act of Qurbani. That is simply not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mariyam said: You are mistaking revenge for closure, in this specific instance. Semantics. Basis of justice is revenge. If humans didn’t feel the need to avenge, we’d not be seeking justice, the fundamental founding basis of which, is to correct a wrong, failing which, to make the perp suffer and prevent them from doing further harm. All of this, is just cognitive expose on the emotion of revenge. Quote Do you think extra judicial killing is going to be a deterrent? Studies have proven otherwise. Such studies are meaningless. Because such studies do not take into account the level of enforcement of the law, normalized for family members taking care and keeping mentally challenged people out of potential misdeeds( as in our culture) or letting them rot on the streets ( west). Suffice to say , entire Arab world is proof that if strong family values are present, punitive deterrence definitively works in case of crime. Quote The problem we have is societal. It can't be cured by just having more draconian laws and quite literally, in this case, shooting from the hip. The problem cannot be cured by vigilantism but it definitely addresses the Justice part of it. A perp punished is better than a perp getting off free on legal technicality or delays in the system, period. As I said, law exists to serve justice. That’s it’s purpose and if law cannot deliver justice, natural justice will prevail. Always have, always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dil Dil India Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Mulo - the basis for justice is not necessarily "revenge". In simple terms, law seeks to right the wrong and address the grievances of the wronged. With that said, I am okay with such extra judicial killings until such time as our justice system gets a major overhaul and cases are fast tracked. My only issue is that this may degenerate to a "gangajal" like situation (if you are familiar with the movie) and that is very dangerous for the society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 @Mariyam mulo says hi mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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