INDIA A tour of New Zealand

[diehardpacer]

Shaw,

Mayank,

Pujara,

Kohli,

Gill,

Rahane/Vihari/Jadeja

I would play Jadeja at 6 to have the comfort of 5 bowlers.

KL will have to be the WK to get in which is a tough ask.

Edited February 3, 2020 by diehardpacer

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 1/15/2020 at 3:05 PM, shortbread said:

 

India A squad for 2nd four-day game: Prithvi Shaw, Mayank Agarwal, Shubman Gill, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane, Wriddhiman Saha (wicket-keeper), Hanuma Vihari (Captain), KS Bharat (wicket-keeper), Shivam Dube, R Ashwin, Shahbaz Nadeem, Sandeep Warrier, Avesh Khan, Mohammad Siraj, Ishan Porel.

If Shaw n Mayank are playing ODI then who will open 2nd game since only gill is left . Have they stopped anyone from panchal or easwaran or will they make pujara open ? 

 

any replacement for dube since  he is also in ODI squad ??

[Ankit_sharma03]

INDIA A

• S Gill, GH Vihari*, CA Pujara, V Shankar, AM Rahane, KS Bharat†, R Ashwin, S Nadeem, Mohammed Siraj, Avesh Khan, SS Warrier, I Porel (12ᵗʰ)

 

Saha not getting game , strange 

 

[Nikola]

Ish sodhi playing in nz a side. Didn't he play first odi? will not play in second?

[Vickydev]

On 2/2/2020 at 9:36 AM, rkt.india said:

Typical New Zealand pitch. 3 100s including one double on 4th day. 

Yeah the commies were on this during the match. Supposed to get match practice for the test series as maybe preferred over Santner for that.

[bowl_out]

NZ 276/5 at stumps Day 1..

Ashwin wicketless

[ShoonyaSifar]

Expectedly no wickets for Ashwin. Jadeja will perform similarly. Two away tour cycles are enough to conclude both cannot bowl in SENA.

[RajBan]

41 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Expectedly no wickets for Ashwin. Jadeja will perform similarly. Two away tour cycles are enough to conclude both cannot bowl in SENA.

There is nothing new in this. We need to mature to understand the horses for courses approach. Otherwise Dhawan will open in T20 instead of Rahul, Rohit will open in SENA test instead of Mayank or Shaw and Ashwin will bowl in SENA based on his exploits in spinning tracks in India. Worst it happens not once or twice but for entire generation and we still lack the acumen to learn.

[putrevus]

6 hours ago, RajBan said:

There is nothing new in this. We need to mature to understand the horses for courses approach. Otherwise Dhawan will open in T20 instead of Rahul, Rohit will open in SENA test instead of Mayank or Shaw and Ashwin will bowl in SENA based on his exploits in spinning tracks in India. Worst it happens not once or twice but for entire generation and we still lack the acumen to learn.

I don't think it works like that.Horses for courses is applied for your fringe players not your core players.

 

Ricky Ponting batted like a tailender in India for most part of his career but Aussis kept playing  him. If you think you have better spinners than Ashwin and Jadeja then play them over Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere.

[ShoonyaSifar]

Saha, despite being picked for the A side, isn't playing this match. He hasn't played a competitive game since the last Test in November. Is he even fully fit?

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think it works like that.Horses for courses is applied for your fringe players not your core players.

 

Ricky Ponting batted like a tailender in India for most part of his career but Aussis kept playing  him. If you think you have better spinners than Ashwin and Jadeja then play them over Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere.

Ponting averaged 42 in Asia and scored 5 100s. He failed in India, which can happen to even the best of the best.

 

Do let us know how many 5-ers Ashwin and Jadeja have in SENA and what is their bowling average in those conditions.

[RajBan]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think it works like that.Horses for courses is applied for your fringe players not your core players.

 

Ricky Ponting batted like a tailender in India for most part of his career but Aussis kept playing  him. If you think you have better spinners than Ashwin and Jadeja then play them over Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere.

I am not saying that we are the only ones who have behaved like this. Also Ponting was captain, so it was difficult to exclude him even after his horror show in 2001.

 

Regardless I think we are a tad more traditionalist in terms of experimentation and adpating based on opponents and conditions. Think this way - we are ok to play 3 pacers in SENA countries because we acknowledge that unlike India where you can play 2 pacers only many time, in SENA most cases the bounce or lateral movement can be exploited by fast bowlers. So it's not that we don't understand the fact that different circumstances may need players with specific abilities and hence they need to be playing ahead of others who may be much more established names or regulars within the team, but it's that we stop from dropping a guy like Ashwin or Rohit in SENA because either we want to protect them regardless of their below average performance or we don't have more intense analytical ability and courage to make decisions as per the need. In Football it happens every now and then depending on formation and opposition but then it is much more manager driven. But it is not absolutely impossible to adapt to a partially similar strategy in cricket where you play a batsman who can grind and adapt in seaming conditions much better compared to somebody who is a worldbeater in relatively flat conditions. This also means that we have to change the mindset of players as well, as this does not necessarily mean that somebody is dropped. It simply means that somebody is prioritized because he is better suited to be successful in those conditions. 

 

P.S. Of course this is all theoritical. I won't want Kohli to go that route, he does not have that intelligence to use it to the benefit of the team but will surely use it to serve his and Bewda's interest.

[putrevus]

28 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Ponting averaged 42 in Asia and scored 5 100s. He failed in India, which can happen to even the best of the best.

 

Do let us know how many 5-ers Ashwin and Jadeja have in SENA and what is their bowling average in those conditions.

How many trips it took Ponting to score that many 100s in Asia. Ashwin played 3 tests in SA, six or seven in SA and England. He did not play in NZ.After his first tours he might not have taken 5fers but certainly bowled well.Yes he have done better you cannot kick players of this magnitude out of test teams in hopes that other players might do better.

 

Ashwin has been excellent and match winner everywhere else.Same with Jadeja who played a vital role in India winning the test series with both bat and ball in Australia.

 

You don't discard players like these two certainly not for few test/one year wonders like Kuldeep.

Edited February 7, 2020 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

46 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Saha, despite being picked for the A side, isn't playing this match. He hasn't played a competitive game since the last Test in November. Is he even fully fit?

yea it is strange....he was also asked not to play 1-2 ranji games also i think for NZ tour 

[putrevus]

32 minutes ago, RajBan said:

I am not saying that we are the only ones who have behaved like this. Also Ponting was captain, so it was difficult to exclude him even after his horror show in 2001.

 

Regardless I think we are a tad more traditionalist in terms of experimentation and adpating based on opponents and conditions. Think this way - we are ok to play 3 pacers in SENA countries because we acknowledge that unlike India where you can play 2 pacers only many time, in SENA most cases the bounce or lateral movement can be exploited by fast bowlers. So it's not that we don't understand the fact that different circumstances may need players with specific abilities and hence they need to be playing ahead of others who may be much more established names or regulars within the team, but it's that we stop from dropping a guy like Ashwin or Rohit in SENA because either we want to protect them regardless of their below average performance or we don't have more intense analytical ability and courage to make decisions as per the need. In Football it happens every now and then depending on formation and opposition but then it is much more manager driven. But it is not absolutely impossible to adapt to a partially similar strategy in cricket where you play a batsman who can grind and adapt in seaming conditions much better compared to somebody who is a worldbeater in relatively flat conditions. This also means that we have to change the mindset of players as well, as this does not necessarily mean that somebody is dropped. It simply means that somebody is prioritized because he is better suited to be successful in those conditions. 

 

P.S. Of course this is all theoritical. I won't want Kohli to go that route, he does not have that intelligence to use it to the benefit of the team but will surely use it to serve his and Bewda's interest.

It has got nothing to do with us being traditionalists.Playing 3 seamers in Sena vs 2 in India has got nothing to do with your theory. Your theory has fatal flaw you are making an assumption that these newcomers who have not proven anything to come in and do wonders in SENA countries. If they are so good let them take over those spots and kick Ashwin or Rohit out of the team.

 

They all have been brought up in India playing in Indian conditions other than a swing bowler like Bhuvi who is condition dependent,

 

Nobody is protecting anybody.Let them earn their spots by performing better than Ashwin , Jadeja or Rohit in India first.

 

P.S. football is not cricket.There is a reason why teams stick to core players in cricket.

Edited February 7, 2020 by putrevus

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

How many trips it took Ponting to score that many 100s in Asia. Ashwin played 3 tests in SA, six or seven in SA and England. He did not play in NZ.After his first tours he might not have taken 5fers but certainly bowled well.Yes he have done better you cannot kick players of this magnitude out of test teams in hopes that other players might do better.

 

Ashwin has been excellent and match winner everywhere else.Same with Jadeja who played a vital role in India winning the test series with both bat and ball in Australia.

 

You don't discard players like these two certainly not for few test/one year wonders like Kuldeep.

Ponting scored back to back 100s vs SL (against Murali) in 2002 itself. Scored 119 runs in only test vs Pakistan in his formative years in 1998, Scored a 100 and averaged 97 vs Pakistani in UAE in 2002. Thats 3 100s in Asia even before he had his golden run as a batsman. Not surprised though, cheerleaders/PR guys have to have a habbit of writing lot of garbage to defend their client

 

As for your repeated insults for younger players, like you got slapped by Rahul and are forced to applaud him now, be ready to see the same soon from others as well. 

 

BTW your client would have finished as a 6 test wonder as well if not for the support from his captain. He seems to have forgotten all this  for now due to his arrogance but will have to face his karma very soon.

[vvvslaxman]

11 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Expectedly no wickets for Ashwin. Jadeja will perform similarly. Two away tour cycles are enough to conclude both cannot bowl in SENA.

Leggies are better bet down under. Ofcourse there are times you get purchase on day 5 in NZ. Generally not overly conducive for finger spinners.  Harry potter averages 37 in his own country

[RajBan]

48 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It has got nothing to do with us being traditionalists.Playing 3 seamers in Sena vs 2 in India has got nothing to do with your theory. Your theory has fatal flaw you are making an assumption that these newcomers who have not proven anything to come in and do wonders in SENA countries. If they are so good let them take over those spots and kick Ashwin or Rohit out of the team.

 

They all have been brought up in India playing in Indian conditions other than a swing bowler like Bhuvi who is condition dependent,

 

Nobody is protecting anybody.Let them earn their spots by performing better than Ashwin , Jadeja or Rohit in India first.

 

P.S. football is not cricket.There is a reason why teams stick to core players in cricket

I don't think the theory is entirely flawed unless we have enough data to prove otherwise. It certainly  is applied partially by England who often plays a completely different line-up for T20 and Test barring Buttler, Bairstow and  Stokes.

 

As far as the protection is concerned, how do explain inclusion of Rohit in  Test and Dhawan in T20? Do you know Rohit did not play any long form cricket in past several years , yet he leaped ahead of several domestic performers because of the impression that he has created in LOI cricket? Now I have said this earlier and repeat it again, he is too good of a batsman where ball won't do anything , hence he will always be a great player when it comes to Indian pitches, however going by his past performance he is going to offer very little in tracks that has something for bowlers.

Dhawan plays T20 inspite of him being average there when we know there are better players than him within the squad and on the bench.

 

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Ponting scored back to back 100s vs SL (against Murali) in 2002 itself. Scored 119 runs in only test vs Pakistan in his formative years in 1998, Scored a 100 and averaged 97 vs Pakistani in UAE in 2002. Thats 3 100s in Asia even before he had his golden run as a batsman. Not surprised though, cheerleaders/PR guys have to have a habbit of writing lot of garbage to defend their client

 

As for your repeated insults for younger players, like you got slapped by Rahul and are forced to applaud him now, be ready to see the same soon from others as well. 

 

BTW your client would have finished as a 6 test wonder as well if not for the support from his captain. He seems to have forgotten all this  for now due to his arrogance but will have to face his karma very soon.

It is not called being against young players.It is called siding with core players and giving them multiple chances.If tomorrow Kuldeep Yadav becomes core member and does not do well in certain places you still back him over some young player coming up.

 

Ashwin and Jadeja have earned that right  to represent India not just in India but overseas too.Yes they have failed to take 5fers or 10fers but given what they offer with bat and the balance they provide to the team I would play them over fading Kuldeep. 

 

Your views might differ on that, that is fine.

Edited February 7, 2020 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

I thought Kuldeep could be played in Tests. He looks a bit short on confidence. Let us hope Ashwin turns it around in Tests.