Top 5 cricketers of AT

[zen]

In the order of debut .... retired or retiring players 
 

Tests 

 

* Bradman - a freak w/ a batting average of “100”. Can hit a 300 in a day 

* Sobers - the greatest all rounder and probably the 2nd best test batsman of all time

* Marshall - premier test match bowler 

* Warne - premier test match spinner

* Gilly - best all round specialist wk batsman 

 

LOIs

 

* Viv Richards 

* Garner 
* Wasim - skillful left arm pace bowler 

* Sachin - consistency 

* ABDV - 360 degrees batting 

 

 

 

 

[Gollum]

All 5 disciplines should have equal representation IMO

 

Bradman

Sobers

Marshall

Warne

Gilly

same as OP

 

I don't care about shorter formats, besides the game has evolved so much. But Viv is the ODI MVP by a humongous margin.  

 

[zen]

Honourable mentions or special awards 
 

Tests

 

* Lillee - inspired a bunch of fast bowlers

* Hadlee - one of the biggest test match winners

* Lara - broke the highest score batting record twice 

* Murali - a freak off spinner

* Sehwag - revolutionized test opening

 

LOIs

* D Houghton - a player who could have been one of the notable WK batsmen if he had the opportunity to play for a major team 

* M Crowe - captaincy + consistency in a big tournament 

* Jayasuriya - took batting in PPs to a new high (or a new low for bowling sides)

* J Rhodes - sensational fielding and running b/w the wkts 

* Bevan - the art of finishing 

  

Edited April 8, 2020 by zen

[rkt.india]

Amateur era should not be considered. Otherwise, George Lohmann is the most dangerous bowler.

[Straight Drive]

Top 5 Test I watched

 

Sunny - Batsman

Harper - Fielder

Marshall - Bowler

Alan Knott - Keeper

Sobers - All rounder

 

 

Too 5 ODI I watched

 

Viv - Batsman

Rhodes - Fielder

Murali - Bowler

Gilchrist - Keeper

Kapil - All rounder

 

[maniac]

Bradman shouldn’t be counted. Yes he is a legend of the game and there should be a separate category for them.

 

When you are listing the top 5 fastest vehicles of all time you don’t go with a horse buggy because at that time it was the fastest vehicle known to man.

 

Bradman bullied the same team over and over.

 

Let any of those ATG’s  tour overseas for 2-3 months with all 3 formats , play a home series for a month all 3 formats , IPl, ICC tournament etc etc day in and day out and perform and we would have known their worth.

 

At the same time obviously can’t say the current gen is greater because there were definitely some challenges back then which the current lot  have  it on a platter.

 

So I usually rate players who have held on to their legacy even amidst changing generations and still came out of top.

 

Here are my Top5
Sachin

Viv

Gilchrist

Warne

McGarth 

 

close contenders

Wasim

Lara

Kallis

[Jimmy Cliff]

Bradman 

Sobers 

Marshall 

Hadlee

Murali

 

Viv

Wasim 

SRT

Dhoni

Gilly

[rtmohanlal]

My list .... no categorization  in terms of formats , eras etc etc . I think  whether the list is right or wrong  , one should be able to  pick  irrespective of all these factors  to do justice to the 'criteria'.

 

1. Jaques Kallis - GOAT all rounder

2. Don Bradman - GOAT batsman

3.  Viv Richards - 2nd GOAT  batsman

4. Gary Sobers- 2nd GOAT all rounder

5. Sachin Tendulkar - 3rd GOAT  batsman

[maniac]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Bradman 

Sobers 

Marshall 

Hadlee

Murali

 

Viv

Wasim 

SRT

Dhoni

Gilly

 there are atleast 30 names I can think of ahead of him just off the top of my head . Unless you are picking only keeper-bats then sure he would be 2nd to Gilly Because of  his captaincy track record- only the good moments of course 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

 there are atleast 30 names I can think of ahead of him just off the top of my head . Unless you are picking only keeper-bats then sure he would be 2nd to Gilly Because of  his captaincy track record- only the good moments of course 

IMO Gilly is hyped up as a WK in LOIs (maybe based on his test exploits and WC final innings). Yes, he did play some great knocks in the finals in WCs but usually he did zilch up to those points. If he did not play for Aus and if his team depended on him, he could not have played a final  

Dhoni too is hyped up but I would give him an edge over Gilly in LOIs as a wicket keeper batsman as he batted in the MO, a difficult position as you could be walking out to bat in different situations .... In fact, he is good enough to play as a key specialist batsman too in many teams 

 

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

IMO Gilly is hyped up as a WK in LOIs (maybe based on his test exploits and WC final innings). Yes, he did play some great knocks in the finals in WCs but usually he did zilch up to those points. If he did not play for Aus and if his team depended on him, he could not have played a final  

Dhoni too is hyped up but I would give him an edge over Gilly in LOIs as a wicket keeper batsman as he batted in the MO, a difficult position as you could be walking out to bat in different situations .... In fact, he is good enough to play as a key specialist batsman too in many teams 

 

As a keeper Boucher was technically better than both Dhoni and Gilly even though he never kept against quality spin. Also played some clutch knocks even though just like every sa great he was a choker too.

 

however Gilly has that xfactor that Dhoni doesn’t have. We are talking about a guy who revolutionized the role of a keeper bat.

 

If I have to rate them on keeping then it is Gilly Boucher Dhoni

 

as batsmen Gilly Dhoni and Boucher.

 

You can find plenty of alternatives for Dhoni the batsmen in m.o but as a total package Gilly all the way.

[zen]

52 minutes ago, maniac said:

As a keeper Boucher was technically better than both Dhoni and Gilly even though he never kept against quality spin. Also played some clutch knocks even though just like every sa great he was a choker too.

 

however Gilly has that xfactor that Dhoni doesn’t have. We are talking about a guy who revolutionized the role of a keeper bat.

 

 

Gilly revolutionized keeper bat role in tests, not in LOIs where we have seen guys like Houghton (in MO), Kalu (as opener), etc., play some cool innings. Botham, a bowling AR, was used as an opener in 92 WC by Eng .... In fact, Gilly was considered to play a similar role for Aus  .... Both Dhoni and Gilly have x-factor

 

 

Quote

 

If I have to rate them on keeping then it is Gilly Boucher Dhoni

 

as batsmen Gilly Dhoni and Boucher.

 

You can find plenty of alternatives for Dhoni the batsmen in m.o but as a total package Gilly all the way.

 

 

As a MO order wicket keeper batsman, Dhoni is unique as a package  

 

 

WK batsmen in top order:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Wicketkeeper as designated wicketkeeper

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Showing 1 - 11 of 11

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
Q de Kock (SA)	2013-2020	102	102	5	4313	178	44.46	4540	95.00	14	19	4
KC Sangakkara (ICC/SL)	2001-2015	213	208	13	8554	169	43.86	10664	80.21	16	57	10
SD Hope (WI)	2017-2020	39	35	2	1314	123*	39.81	1756	74.82	3	9	3
AC Gilchrist (AUS)	1997-2008	223	222	4	7699	154	35.31	7963	96.68	14	44	16
N Dickwella (SL)	2016-2019	32	31	0	1023	95	33.00	1054	97.05	0	8	0
BJ Haddin (AUS)	2004-2013	46	45	1	1452	110	33.00	1749	83.01	2	8	2
AJ Stewart (ENG)	1992-2001	80	80	2	2521	116	32.32	3692	68.28	3	17	6
BB McCullum (NZ)	2003-2012	54	51	1	1534	131	30.68	1776	86.37	1	8	4
A Flower (ZIM)	1992-2002	48	47	2	1292	145	28.71	1986	65.05	2	7	3
Kamran Akmal (PAK)	2002-2013	69	69	1	1770	124	26.02	2240	79.01	3	5	4
RS Kaluwitharana (SL)	1996-2004	103	102	4	2469	102*	25.19	3232	76.39	1	20	13

 

 

Wk batsmen in middle order:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Wicketkeeper as designated wicketkeeper

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
AB de Villiers (SA)	2009-2015	44	42	10	1972	128	61.62	2119	93.06	5	13	1
MS Dhoni (INDIA)	2005-2019	289	248	71	8580	139*	48.47	9983	85.94	5	62	6
JC Buttler (ENG)	2013-2019	129	107	22	3500	150	41.17	2943	118.92	9	16	11
R Dravid (INDIA)	1999-2004	56	51	9	1699	109*	40.45	2388	71.14	1	13	3
KC Sangakkara (SL)	2000-2013	81	73	12	2417	110	39.62	3157	76.56	1	20	2
Sarfaraz Ahmed (PAK)	2011-2019	61	51	10	1535	105	37.43	1721	89.19	1	10	0
Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH)	2007-2019	125	119	15	3723	144	35.79	4661	79.87	3	24	6
A Flower (ZIM)	1994-2002	117	115	10	3669	142*	34.94	4838	75.83	2	29	8
TWM Latham (NZ)	2012-2020	38	34	2	1043	103*	32.59	1224	85.21	1	7	1
T Taibu (ZIM)	2002-2012	81	76	11	2031	107*	31.24	3068	66.19	2	10	7
MV Boucher (SA)	1998-2011	183	150	33	3375	78	28.84	4123	81.85	0	20	12
MS Wade (AUS)	2012-2017	66	57	10	1292	100*	27.48	1433	90.16	1	7	4
AC Parore (NZ)	1992-2001	56	55	14	1114	61*	27.17	1588	70.15	0	3	6
L Ronchi (AUS/NZ)	2008-2017	58	46	8	1010	170*	26.57	870	116.09	1	2	5
Khaled Mashud (BDESH)	1997-2006	52	51	9	1074	71*	25.57	1905	56.37	0	6	3
PJL Dujon (WI)	1981-1991	144	102	33	1706	82*	24.72	2572	66.32	0	5	5
D Ramdin (WI)	2006-2016	73	65	7	1351	128	23.29	1716	78.72	1	6	4
IA Healy (AUS)	1988-1997	98	78	22	1286	56	22.96	1521	84.54	0	3	8
Moin Khan (PAK)	1990-2004	129	114	22	1996	72*	21.69	2484	80.35	0	7	13
RW Marsh (AUS)	1971-1984	79	68	11	1105	66	19.38	1364	81.01	0	3	6

 

 

 

Both are great players though. At the moment, I would prefer Buttler w/ ABDV as a specialist batsman

Edited April 8, 2020 by zen

[zen]

Playing fast bowlers like Larwood w/o high quality protective equipment:

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by zen

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Top 5 Test I watched

 

Sunny - Batsman

Harper - Fielder

Marshall - Bowler

Alan Knott - Keeper

Sobers - All rounder

 

 

Too 5 ODI I watched

 

Viv - Batsman

Rhodes - Fielder

Murali - Bowler

Gilchrist - Keeper

Kapil - All rounder

 

I thought Dhoni is the better ODI wk/bat than Gilly. Gilly is better test wk/bat.

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, zen said:

Playing fast bowlers like Larwood w/o high quality protective equipment:

 

 

 

 

Larwood played just 21 tests.

[Jimmy Cliff]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

 there are atleast 30 names I can think of ahead of him just off the top of my head . Unless you are picking only keeper-bats then sure he would be 2nd to Gilly Because of  his captaincy track record- only the good moments of course 

Well the thread is about ATG cricketers so of course captaincy is included too. If you count his batting alone, Dhoni would probably be among top 30-40, take his keeping into count and he gets into top 10. His success as a captain gets him in the top 5.

[kohli]

Sachin 

murli 

mcgrath 

viv 

warne

GOAT in both format ( test + odi)

[Harsh Thakor]

How are the names of legends like W.G.Grace, Jack Hobbs,Sydney Barnes and Wally Hammond forgotten?

 

Dr. WG Grace scored 54896 runs with 126 centuries and captured 2876 wickets in 1st class cricket.on  8 occasions achieved the double of 1000 runs and 100 wickets in a single season.No cricketer was so head and shoulders over his contemporaries of as defining or impactful as Dr Grace.Scored 3ww not out v MCC on a wicket of uncut gsas as well as many of his centuries.

 

Jack Hobbs overshadowed Bradman on wet sticklers and was the better allround batsmen.Aggregated 61237 runs with 197,centuries including 117 after world war 1.Played 2 of the most defining Ashes innings at Melbourne in 1928-29 and the Oval in 1926.Some experts feel overall he was ahead of Bradman who was not at his best on bad pitches.

 

 

Sydney Barnes captured 189 wickets in 27 tsets at 16.89 average which is phenomenal.rated unplayable with his movement and control.

 

Wally Hammond was in the league of Viv Richards but unfortunately played in bradman's era.

[Harsh Thakor]

My list in order of merit

W G Grace

Gary Sobers

Jack Hobbs

Sachin Tendulkar

Don Bradman

Sydney Barnes

Shane Warne

Viv Richards

Imran Khan

Walter Hammond

Wasim Akram

Brian Lara

 

 

 

W.G Grace ruled the cricket world like an emperor and dominated it more thanany cricketer ever.For his time he ws like a prophet.Personally I feel morally Sobers all-round cricketing performance overshadowed even Bradman if you asess how much he was above any cricketer or allrounder and the way he batted ,bowled or fielded. Hobbs was the better all-round batsmen than Bradman and at his best on bad wickets.Hard to envisage Bradman surpassing tendulkar's 100 international centuries in the contemporary era or equal his run aggregate.Bradman was not fully tested in various conditions .For being a sheer cricketing machine Bradman was simply in another league and on good wickets was and would be in another league or pedestal.In the modern era I back him to average 70-75 but not to surpass the genius of Lara and Sachin against spin or Viv Richards against sheer pace,

 

Only test cricket  in order of merit

 

Sobers

Bradman

Barnes

Lara

Warne

Imran

Tendulkar

Viv

Hobbs

Botham

Hammond

Marshall

 

Grace played only 3tests so does not make this list exclusively for test cricket.Hobbs was outstanding but played only 61 tests.Personally I feel maybe by a whisker Lara overshadowed Tendulkar in tests,with his massive scores,rate of scoring and ability to bear the brunt of the weakest t of batting sides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Harsh Thakor

[maniac]

^ @Harsh Thakor interesting that you have placed Bradman below Sachin in your overall list and Viv below Sachin in the test list.

 

I just want to hear your take why you feel that way.