Everybody can code movement

[MechEng]

Discussion not necessary. Just wanted to share an opinion.

 

I think programming languages are very advanced skills which only those who are interested in it should pursue.

 

Everybody can code movement gives false hopes that all humans are potential Amazon/Microsoft SDEs and it's only through hard work to unlock that potential. Making kids learn programming as a compulsory skill is downright dehumanising. 

 

I agree innovation is an inevitable part of life, I myself use nastran and CAD for personal work. I remember a story where in 1960s Lockheed Martin engineers would spend sometimes 6 months to figure out solutions to a set of equations, today matlab does that job within few hours.

 

But we must not go away from more humanistic elements such as writing on paper, elegant handwriting, free hand drawings. Basically a more tech free environment.

 

I hope we never be slaves to machines.

 

[gattaca]

Now Now.. lets do this the right way. Op get a piece of paper and write down your post and mail to everybody in ICF.

[MechEng]

10 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Now Now.. lets do this the right way. Op get a piece of paper and write down your post and mail to everybody in ICF.

Ayy but python is annoying!

[WC2011INDIA]

No. We shall keep doing it and take away all jobs in IT from the white, brown, black and yellow born in USA, Canada, Britain etc.

 

One of the secret agendas of the current establishment. Har har mahadev.

Edited August 14, 2020 by WC2011INDIA

[Trichromatic]

Why is it inhumane? 

 

Wasn't calculus advanced skill 300 years back? 

 

Amazon/Microsoft SDE requires practising 200-220 coding questions (not random set of questions) at entry level and questions are rarely asked outside that set. Google, Facebook is different. Number of people with potential to do it way higher than actual number of people who try for it. 

[Trichromatic]

3 hours ago, MechEng said:

Ayy but python is annoying!

Why?

[I6MTW]

I am an IT student, but I have great difficulty in coding. I understand all the concepts and the theory parts , but when it comes to code, I just can't seem to convert it. And Python is one of the easier languages. 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Why is it inhumane? 

 

Wasn't calculus advanced skill 300 years back? 

 

Amazon/Microsoft SDE requires practising 200-220 coding questions (not random set of questions) at entry level and questions are rarely asked outside that set. Google, Facebook is different. Number of people with potential to do it way higher than actual number of people who try for it. 

 

1 hour ago, WC2011INDIA said:

No. We shall keep doing it and take away all jobs in IT from the white, brown, black and yellow born in USA, Canada, Britain etc.

 

One of the secret agendas of the current establishment. Har har mahadev.

 

@Trichromatic It's not inhumane, but I'm seeing how kids these days are getting indoctrinated to learn to code just like entrance exams craze in India. Like India has glut of MBAs and engineers, but very few have the actual skills to get the job done. I don't want to see glut of coders, which would inevitably bring wages down due to supply demand imbalance and create an unhealthy lifestyle with tough competition. 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Why?

I'd like my code to give quick results instead of debugging and trying to figure out why my code is giving funny output plots 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, I6MTW said:

I am an IT student, but I have great difficulty in coding. I understand all the concepts and the theory parts , but when it comes to code, I just can't seem to convert it. And Python is one of the easier languages. 

Are you comfortable with python? Yes your case is understandable because coding is a specialized skill which comes naturally to some but not all.

[I6MTW]

15 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Are you comfortable with python? Yes your case is understandable because coding is a specialized skill which comes naturally to some but not all.

Well I know the syntax and concepts of Python as well as other OOPS languages like Java , C#.  But, I just cant seem to code..if it's basic and smaller programs, I can manage to do it on my own. But larger programs and algorithms, I can't seem to think like a programmer. And this is coming from a student who studies 8 semester of Information Technology. I know the concepts and theory aspects very well, so I am not lacking in that aspect. It's just thay I can't seem to practically apply it.

Edited August 14, 2020 by I6MTW

[MechEng]

4 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

Well I know the syntax and concepts of Python as well as other OOPS languages like Java , C#.  But, I just cant seem to code..if it's basic and smaller programs, I can manage to do it on my own. But larger programs and algorithms, I can't seem to think like a programmer. And this is coming from a student who studies 8 semester of Information Technology. I know the concepts and theory aspects very well, so I am not lacking in that aspect. It's just thay I can't seem to practically apply it.

I'm not into CS but data structures and algorithms is probably similar to applied math/ logic conceptually, at least that's how I see it.

 

How do you find combinatorics and graph theory?

Edited August 14, 2020 by MechEng

[I6MTW]

3 hours ago, MechEng said:

I'm not into CS but data structures and algorithms is probably similar to applied math/ logic conceptually, at least that's how I see it.

 

How do you find combinatorics and graph theory?

We never had graph theory as a subject. It was an elective, and in our college it was majority votes, so everyone opted for business intelligence instead of Graph theory. 

 

I did have Design and Analysis of Algorithms as a subject, that included topics on combinatorial problems and algorithms.

[BacktoCricaddict]

It's an offshoot of the misguided "anybody can do anything" movement.  There are two related problems (a) Society attaches prestige to certain jobs (e.g., doctor, lawyer, coder?), and (b) pushes the idea that anyone can do any of these jobs.  Instead we must focus on the idea that each and every job has intrinsic value.  Yes, some are going to be more high-paying (supply-demand) and/or prestigious (high-pressure), but that should not diminish the value of other jobs.  Once every career is seen as having intrinsic value, the clamor for these select prestigious careers may diminish.  

 

As a pre-medical adviser, I see 100s of students who all think they can (and should) be doctors.  But they struggle in chemistry and physics classes as undergraduates, and that is a deal-breaker.  It is a struggle to get them to see that, as science graduates, they can get decently paying jobs as research scientists, clinical researchers and the like - where they are still helping move medicine forward.  Often, they take one of those jobs as a stop-gap before they re-apply to medical school, fall in love with what they are doing, are making decent money and getting good benefits, making them forget about the misery of the pre-medical track.  In some cases, it is just a matter of timing.  Students who did not perform well in the sciences as undergraduates, come back years later - more grown up, more secure and more motivated.  They excel in the Chem and Phy classes, crack the MCAT and make it to medical school. 

 

Bottom line?  It is not true that "anyone can do anything."  It is also not true that anyone can correctly predict if any given individual cannot do something ever.  Maybe some can never do it (e.g., I can never become a coder).  Others perhaps can't do it now, but maybe can later.  So, don't discourage anyone, just present them with other options at which they can excel.         

[Gollum]

I wasn't naturally talented at coding, found that in school compared to peers, had to put in twice the effort for half the results. So didn't pick CS/EEE/E&I etc in college despite clearing cutoff. Stick to your strengths, and not like country needs only coders, core subjects (electrical, mechanical, chemical, civil) equally important in the engineering world. You will still need to use tools like MATLAB or say some CFD software but coding component is much less. I know many who made the mistake of taking CS and they repented for those 4 years, after graduation all of them went the MBA route or into UPSC prep. Also hate this new fad of forcing 6th standard kids to spend the whole evening in coding classes, that time can be spent towards developing skills in some extra-curriculars. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Gollum

[coffee_rules]

Responding to some specifics, have been in SDLC all my life, it is true 90% of coding out there anybody can do. Except for specialized fields like Communication, networking, embedded computing, FPGAs, defence apps, most of the coding out there is fin analysis, user interfaces, backend processing, accounting, general user applications, some apps on the phones, all these anybody can do, just using google university and YT university, and github.

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Responding to some specifics, have been in SDLC all my life, it is true 90% of coding out there anybody can do. Except for specialized fields like Communication, networking, embedded computing, FPGAs, defence apps, most of the coding out there is fin analysis, user interfaces, backend processing, accounting, general user applications, some apps on the phones, all these anybody can do, just using google university and YT university, and github.

Yes, but then this creates a glut of coders and as a result a pretty good coder who probably gets paid 12 lacs in India will have to settle for a much lower salary. During British rule, becoming a barrister was the craze, after green revolution it was doctor/engineer, then came 1991 economic liberalization which made MBA lucrative and now it seems coding/AI will be the future craze. 

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

I wasn't naturally talented at coding, found that in school compared to peers, had to put in twice the effort for half the results. So didn't pick CS/EEE/E&I etc in college despite clearing cutoff. Stick to your strengths, and not like country needs only coders, core subjects (electrical, mechanical, chemical, civil) equally important in the engineering world. You will still need to use tools like MATLAB or say some CFD software but coding component is much less. I know many who made the mistake of taking CS and they repented for those 4 years, after graduation all of them went the MBA route or into UPSC prep. Also hate this new fad of forcing 6th standard kids to spend the whole evening in coding classes, that time can be spent towards developing skills in some extra-curriculars. 

I find debugging matlab a headache. That shows my coding ability 

[coffee_rules]

people should use coding like Calculator . I am sure it was not useful initially, difficult to use, but now everybody uses it. 

Digressing from OP. Where I can't use technology is reading in original language , literature. There is no substitute to that. I can't enjoy a google translated scandinavian text. AI needs better database, use scholars to develop database for good translation to work. We need read, learn and enjoy the mastery of he language be it Kannada, Hindi, Sanskrit or even Urdu. I don't know how different it is to appreciate urdu in arabic script from roman/devanagri script. Sanskrit is same in all scripts, words are powerful in any script. 

[maniac]

Only skills you  need to know is where to go, what to find and how to apply it to your problem.

 

Let the guys who know how to code and seem to enjoy  it do it for me :)