How will the history books remember Kohli's 85 (61)

[jalebi_bhai]

Not his best but neither his worst. Overall, largely forgetful innings.

 

But is he match ka mujrim? Rahul + Iyer = 0(3), Samson 10 runs at about run a ball. 3/6 recognized bats combined didn't score even 20 runs.

 

Was Kohli entirely at fault? Or is it just the usual people with Kohli derangement syndrome who are on his case?   

 

Today was not the occasion for Kohli to step up as he has credit in the bank in T20Is as a batsman. Samson and Iyer had to make a case for themselves today, and they both failed. 

[putrevus]

Larger picture in regards to Kohli is does he have that top gear which is needed in T20s to chase these 190 plus totals.

[jalebi_bhai]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Larger picture in regards to Kohli is does he have that top gear which is needed in T20s to chase these 190 plus totals.

 

Do you think Warner and Morgan have that gear? 

[Indwin]

1 hour ago, velu said:

best batting performance in this game 

Was it better than wade's innings?

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Do you think Warner and Morgan have that gear? 

Morgan is on his way out, he never was in the class of Kohli.  We are talking about one of the greatest batsmen to have ever played the game.Kohli does not have a single t20 100 in international cricket.

 

To score a t20 100 you need to have ability to reach 100 in 60 deliveries. I don't know if  Kohli will ever have that ability from now onwards. India needs more than 130 plus SR from number 3 after getting his eye in.

[Real McCoy]

15 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Do you think Warner and Morgan have that gear? 

But they are not hyped up by the media like Kohli. Morgan and Warner both put team result over personal image and take risks that Kohli won't. Regardless this is not the worst innings of Kohli. Kohli is on par with Smith in t20 performance. Both are not suited to this format. Dhawan as clutch as he was in ODIs is old and needs to go. Kohli should realize this. He didn't even drop Dhoni in t20s how is he gonna drop dhawan who is a friend of his.

[raki05]

Kohli as captain sucks more than Kohli as batsmen. However I feel he shoul quit playing t20 in the intrest of future.

[sage]

Morgan is one of the most selfless players out there and he's done a lot to create an atmosphere of selflessness in the England team which has been very important for their success. A good example is he's made sure that his batsman always run in the last ball of the match even if its suicidal and might ruin a batsman's average. Look at his response to Malan who was already 100+ last year. 

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/cricket/10314428/england-eoin-morgan-dawid-malan-new-zealand-t20/

 

Quote

But ruthless skipper Morgan was unimpressed Malan refused a risky run on the last ball of the innings to remain not out.

Asked whether his young, experimental T20 squad reminded him of his World Cup winners, perfectionist Morgan replied: “It’s too early to say.

“The biggest indicator will be planting seeds and watching guys strive towards that common goal.

“But, if we have guys who are not running off the last ball because they want a not out, there’s something to address.”

on the final delivery of the innings, Sam Billings missed an attempted hook shot and Malan, at the non-striker’s end, turned down the single.

And Morgan wants his T20 players to be unselfish in the way his 50-over stars thought only of the team cause on the way to winning the World Cup.

It might appear pernickety by Morgan but he is famous for his attention to detail and desire to eliminate any hint of selfishness.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by sage

[jalebi_bhai]

40 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Morgan is on his way out, he never was in the class of Kohli.  We are talking about one of the greatest batsmen to have ever played the game.Kohli does not have a single t20 100 in international cricket.

 

It's not really an issue. He has won us many games with his 50s alone. Had he got one today and we lost, it would be a pointless statistic. 

 

45 minutes ago, putrevus said:

To score a t20 100 you need to have ability to reach 100 in 60 deliveries. I don't know if  Kohli will ever have that ability from now onwards. India needs more than 130 plus SR from number 3 after getting his eye in.

 

Fair point. This has been an issue for him off late.

 

I'll excuse him today though bcoz it was a dead rubber and he got very little support from the middle order.

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

It's not really an issue. He has won us many games with his 50s alone. Had he got one today and we lost, it would be a pointless statistic. 

 

 

Fair point. This has been an issue for him off late.

 

I'll excuse him today though bcoz it was a dead rubber and he got very little support from the middle order.

I don't care about him not scoring a T20 100 or not winning today's match. I don't like what I am seeing from Kohli, he is not finishing chases in odis also, he is getting out after he is getting starts.What made Kohli great is his ability to bat till the end. That has been missing from him. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by putrevus

[jalebi_bhai]

42 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

But they are not hyped up by the media like Kohli. 

 

They are too an extent.

 

42 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Morgan and Warner both put team result over personal image and take risks that Kohli won't.

 

 

Then why is it that their T20I S/Rs are more or less the same as Kohli's? All 3 have S/Rs in 138-140 range. How does selfish Kohli manage similar S/Rs with higher average than selfless Warner and Morgan? 

 

42 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Kohli is on par with Smith in t20 performance. 

 

 

And this is when I stop taking your arguments seriously. A Two time T20 WC MVP is on par with an above average T20I player . Joke of a comparison. Even in his slump year, he has outperformed Smith in the format. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

He didn't even drop Dhoni in t20s how is he gonna drop dhawan who is a friend of his.

 

 

This is probably the only part that I agree with. 

[jalebi_bhai]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't care about him not scoring a T20 100 or not winning today's match. I don't like what I am seeing from Kohli, he is not finishing chases in odis also, he is getting out after he is getting starts.What made Kohli great is his ability to bat till the end. That has been missing from him. 

 

Fair enough. This is a legitimate concern. 

[Sandeep99]

As listless as all of his innings. Useless bilateral king lolli. He will be fondly remembered for the reckless skyer in 2015, 2 dollies he gave in 2017 and the predictable incoming ball lbw in 2019. That will be his legacy.

[Sandeep99]

23 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Fair enough. This is a legitimate concern. 

Even at his so called peak in bilateral ODIs in 2014, I remember him bottling chases in New Zealand, Australia and England. This is nothing new.

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, Sandeep99 said:

Even at his so called peak in bilateral ODIs in 2014, I remember him bottling chases in New Zealand, Australia and England. This is nothing new.

Was it your or someone else with that epic choker sig of Brat, what happened to that btw 

[jalebi_bhai]

1 hour ago, Sandeep99 said:

Even at his so called peak in bilateral ODIs in 2014, I remember him bottling chases in New Zealand, Australia and England. This is nothing new.

 

Except t20 WC, 2014 was his horror year  

 

Btw, planning on starting another anti-club? I would suggest starting anti-consolidators club. 

[Real McCoy]

1 hour ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

They are too an extent.

 

The keyword is extent. They have cheerleaders in the comm box but every commentator cheers and fawns over Kohli not just because they like him but they know which way their bread is buttered.

 

Then why is it that their T20I S/Rs are more or less the same as Kohli's? All 3 have S/Rs in 138-140 range. How does selfish Kohli manage similar S/Rs with higher average than selfless Warner and Morgan? 

There are several variables. Like ground dimensions, match situation, the number when the batsmen walks in, the situation they find themselves in. Compared to Kohli, they have shown more intent to the point of throwing their wickets away to step up the scoring. Kohli believes if he is dismissed nobody can fill in his shoes so he bats conservatively. Other reason could be he knows he cannot clear the field and leaves it to others to do the heavylifting. We only lost 6 wickets today. If there were more urgency shown in the middle overs, we may have lost more wickets but could have kept on scoring as we had some lower order batters today unlike the ODI series. I would rather be all out for 150 going for the target rather than be 80/1 after 10 overs chasing 185. That leaves too much to do for the lower order.

And this is when I stop taking your arguments seriously. A Two time T20 WC MVP is on par with an above average T20I player . Joke of a comparison. Even in his slump year, he has outperformed Smith in the format. 

 

Seriously, winning MVP is your benchmark for a player? I'll tell you how they give these awards. They give it to the money maker to keep the supporters happy. As long as they get their money, they don't care who gets the MVP. Kohli is important to the cricketing world as many people are his fans. There's a reason why Sachin received so many MoM awards even when India lost. Fans are much shrewd these days so they don't get it for losing efforts. Infact, one of these scenarios happened in the recent IPL and @zen @Mariyam or somebody questioned the logic behind it. I think Dhawan got it for a cntury which was a great innings but the opposition chased it easily.

 

 

This is probably the only part that I agree with. 

Answer in bold

[jalebi_bhai]

Quote

The keyword is extent. They have cheerleaders in the comm box but every commentator cheers and fawns over Kohli not just because they like him but they know which way their bread is buttered.

 

So? Are you jealous that they like him and know how to profit from the association? This is honestly childish  

 

Quote

There are several variables. Like ground dimensions, match situation, the number when the batsmen walks in, the situation they find themselves in. Compared to Kohli, they have shown more intent to the point of throwing their wickets away to step up the scoring. 

 

If they've shown more intent, why are they producing similar results S/R wise? At least the S/R would be significantly higher, which it isn't. 

 

Ground dimensions? England play on smaller grounds. Oz wickets are as flat as Indian ones and are similar in size nowadays.

 

Match situation? Warner and Kohli are top order bats so ok, there is some correlation. But Captain Morgan is a middle order bat. Why is his S/R not signifcantly higher?   

 

Quote

Kohli believes if he is dismissed nobody can fill in his shoes so he bats conservatively. 

 

Or maybe his role is to anchor the innings while the rest bat around him?

 

Let me ask you one simple question, when was the last time India successfully chased a stiff target in any format without an important contribution from either Rohit or Kohli? Get back to me, and you'll understand why Indian team bats the way it does. 

 

Also, look up how frequently we chase stiff targets when neither Rohit or Kohli click.

 

Quote

Other reason could be he knows he cannot clear the field and leaves it to others to do the heavylifting. We only lost 6 wickets today. If there were more urgency shown in the middle overs, we may have lost more wickets but could have kept on scoring as we had some lower order batters today unlike the ODI series. I would rather be all out for 150 going for the target rather than be 80/1 after 10 overs chasing 185. That leaves too much to do for the lower order.

 

So you'd rather they play in a frenzy and lose rather than pace themselves and win or at least get close? 

 

Quote

Seriously, winning MVP is your benchmark for a player? I'll tell you how they give these awards. They give it to the money maker to keep the supporters happy. As long as they get their money, they don't care who gets the MVP. Kohli is important to the cricketing world as many people are his fans. There's a reason why Sachin received so many MoM awards even when India lost. Fans are much shrewd these days so they don't get it for losing efforts. Infact, one of these scenarios happened in the recent IPL and @zen @Mariyam or somebody questioned the logic behind it. I think Dhawan got it for a cntury which was a great innings but the opposition chased it easily.

 

He was top Scorer in 2014 and 2nd top scorer in 2016. Performed in every clutch match in those tournaments. Hence the awards.

 

But if you'd rather believe in your conspiracy theories and live in lala land, be my guest. 

[Vilander]

JAMTTI. people tend to forget 1-2 hrs after last ball is bowled. 

[MechEng]

Kohli looks burned out. Thank you for memories, will always remember your batting performances in 2016.