LACK of Foresight, Clear Thought Process, Good Strategies, Effective Tactics, Proper Talent Identification and Backing those talents.

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Mumbai Indians have shown the way and BCCI cant even complain

there is difference between scouting finished talent internationally for commercialized t20 vs generating and maintaining talent for test game. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

there is difference between scouting finished talent internationally for commercialized t20 vs generating and maintaining talent for test game. 

 

MI isnt just about scouting talent they do many things better then BCCI - they have vision and ppl are accountable there

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

MI isnt just about scouting talent they do many things better then BCCI - they have vision and ppl are accountable there

Accountability yup thats good. But running a commercial t20 team is diff from running a national test team. Its not the same. Mi might not do that well if they were given indias test team for instance as they can't hire the best batsmen for australian conditions or England conditions and they cant control the pitch. The game rules won't be batsmen oriented and the best bowlers to controls such a scenario will not be available for them. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Vilander

[Ankit_sharma03]

54 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Accountability yup thats good. But running a commercial t20 team is diff from running a national test team. Its not the same. Mi might not do that well if they were given indias test team for instance as they can't hire the best batsmen for australian conditions or England conditions and they cant control the pitch. The game rules won't be batsmen oriented and the best bowlers to controls such a scenario will not be available for them. 

 

MI biggest strength is Indian player and secondaly india has the best talent avl in world cricket right now

 

• look at the people they hire in their talent scouting now compare it to our selectors
• the minute parthiv retired he was hired, BCCI isnt using best of recently retired cricketers
• MI has a team director and best of coaches, Eng,SA also has team director whats stopping BCCI
• Look at their pre planning- amre was hired to better kishen hitting who is stopping that in BCCI
• every selection n backups are well planned , do BCCI n TM look to be doing that 
• Bumrah n Pandya choose MI to help them with injuries not NCA, bhuvi saha choose NCA and they are constantly getting injured 

its just not about buying player, that side is well planned for next 5 yrs 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

26 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

MI biggest strength is Indian player and secondaly india has the best talent avl in world cricket right now

 

• look at the people they hire in their talent scouting now compare it to our selectors
• the minute parthiv retired he was hired, BCCI isnt using best of recently retired cricketers
• MI has a team director and best of coaches, Eng,SA also has team director whats stopping BCCI
• Look at their pre planning- amre was hired to better kishen hitting who is stopping that in BCCI
• every selection n backups are well planned , do BCCI n TM look to be doing that 
• Bumrah n Pandya choose MI to help them with injuries not NCA, bhuvi saha choose NCA and they are constantly getting injured 

its just not about buying player, that side is well planned for next 5 yrs 

 

Hiring good people is one thing.  Empowering them, letting them do their job  and holding them accountable to results is another aspect.  

[express bowling]

9 hours ago, maniac said:

Agree with most points except the consolidators part. Pujara is an important cog in the batting line up. 

 

Saha was played for his keeping skills 

 

Shaw over Gill, I am not sure who will qualify as a consolidator in this regard.

 

Aggarwal is an attacking player too.

 

A guy like Rahane is not technically a consolidator, he is a stroke player from a test perspective, let’s not confuse his LoI credentials with tests.

 

Now sure you can pigeon hole a guy like Vihari as a consolidator because we haven’t seen much from him.

 

 

 

A mix of good defensive batsmen like Pujara and good attacking batsmen like Kohli, are needed.

 

If there is no one to counter-attack then the bowlers are allowed to settle into a good line and length without any contest.

 

Mayank is an attacking batsman against spin. But not against quick bowling in test matches.

 

Rahane, Vihari, Saha ... at 5.6 and 7 ... are too slow as a group for the lower middle order. Most good teams have a couple of counterattacking batsmen at 6 and 7.

 

Team composition is the key.

 

We should not think from the viewpoint of individual players here.

 

 

 

.

[kirkutfan]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

MI biggest strength is Indian player and secondaly india has the best talent avl in world cricket right now

 

• look at the people they hire in their talent scouting now compare it to our selectors
• the minute parthiv retired he was hired, BCCI isnt using best of recently retired cricketers
• MI has a team director and best of coaches, Eng,SA also has team director whats stopping BCCI
• Look at their pre planning- amre was hired to better kishen hitting who is stopping that in BCCI
• every selection n backups are well planned , do BCCI n TM look to be doing that 
• Bumrah n Pandya choose MI to help them with injuries not NCA, bhuvi saha choose NCA and they are constantly getting injured 

its just not about buying player, that side is well planned for next 5 yrs 

 

Yes, but MI missed out by not hiring Ravi Shastri. Team BCCI recognized this gem...

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, kirkutfan said:

Yes, but MI missed out by not hiring Ravi Shastri. Team BCCI recognized this gem...

 

they wud have even made him work coz their is accountability there .

MI works becoz of a whole system not becoz of one man

[The Realist]

17 hours ago, maniac said:

Agree with most points except the consolidators part. Pujara is an important cog in the batting line up. 

 

Saha was played for his keeping skills 

 

Shaw over Gill, I am not sure who will qualify as a consolidator in this regard.

 

Aggarwal is an attacking player too.

 

A guy like Rahane is not technically a consolidator, he is a stroke player from a test perspective, let’s not confuse his LoI credentials with tests.

 

Now sure you can pigeon hole a guy like Vihari as a consolidator because we haven’t seen much from him.

 

It was a batting failure and some changes could have been made based on form but can’t question the entire batting line up as useless. Every batsman in this side is on merit and don’t think adding the perceived non-consilidator players like Pandya,Kishen,Sky,Samson in a pink ball test would have had different results.

 

I can see it from a Saha vs Pant debate though.

The only stroke making Rahane does these days is giving oily massages to Kohli while Cheerleader shouts encouragement from the sidelines to go faster to result in a happy ending.

[Adamant]

Why the f*** are people discussing that damned league here. 

Kaahe ka MI, their captain doesn't have a fixed spot in the team. 

Please don't compare ipl to test cricket. 

[kirkutfan]

23 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

they wud have even made him work coz their is accountability there .

MI works becoz of a whole system not becoz of one man

See Shastri focuses on giving players confidence. When he takes naps during games, he is subtly reminding his players to relax and not be overawed by the occasion. The MI support staff has a lot of catching up to do before they can compete with such high level thinking. Also, he is innovative in his source of ideas. Sometimes he can be found with international female consultants working through the late hours in the evening. MI wishes it had such out of the box thinking. 

[Vilander]

On 12/21/2020 at 11:33 AM, SK_IH said:

This was the time to press the panic button & remove Rahane the supposed captain from the team. God forbid if that phoney flukes even a 50 in next match, he will cling onto the squad like a leech for another year.

worse it going to happen, he will fluke win a game or two as the aus team batting sucks equally. we are in the ****. anyway happy if it happens as we will win a game.

[Vilander]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:19 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

MI biggest strength is Indian player and secondaly india has the best talent avl in world cricket right now

 

• look at the people they hire in their talent scouting now compare it to our selectors
• the minute parthiv retired he was hired, BCCI isnt using best of recently retired cricketers
• MI has a team director and best of coaches, Eng,SA also has team director whats stopping BCCI
• Look at their pre planning- amre was hired to better kishen hitting who is stopping that in BCCI
• every selection n backups are well planned , do BCCI n TM look to be doing that 
• Bumrah n Pandya choose MI to help them with injuries not NCA, bhuvi saha choose NCA and they are constantly getting injured 

its just not about buying player, that side is well planned for next 5 yrs 

 

 

i am 100% sure MI success in IPL is not equal to a model they can reapply in international tests. 

 

India does not have the best batting talent to play in test pitches in Aus/Eng its apparent from 36 all out. 

 

Dont want to bring in MI discussion into a test thread basically - its a commercial league with no player nationality restrictions ( pool of players) international test series games are fundamentally different.

 

1, skills - T20 skills are less intensive ( afg does well) more available in general

 

2, international level player base is divided by nationality and or kolpak or sub nationality (like scotland/ireland etc)

 

3, home team has curated pitches that swing favor to their team and pitches behave supporting their game plan often times.

 

i see fundamental differences when compared to T20 pitches which are market demanded to be in certain way. 

[Vilander]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:19 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

• MI has a team director and best of coaches, Eng,SA also has team director whats stopping BCCI
• Look at their pre planning- amre was hired to better kishen hitting who is stopping that in BCCI
• every selection n backups are well planned , do BCCI n TM look to be doing that 

 

Team dir - yes - role definition is need. Asstri was team dir before what did he do ?

 

Preplanning - Just means injury management + 4 practice games - commercial needs trump these all the time open and shut case - we all know it needs work.

 

selections - yes area that can improve esp game 11, and game 11 for even home games. 

 

its no rocket science really, just the basics 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

i am 100% sure MI success in IPL is not equal to a model they can reapply in international tests. 

 

model isnt about format the model is about team building and then add things like hiring best people, accountability 

 

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

India does not have the best batting talent to play in test pitches in Aus/Eng its apparent from 36 all out. 

 

No team these days have best talent for away condition but we arent even using our best 

 

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

Dont want to bring in MI discussion into a test thread basically - its a commercial league with no player nationality restrictions ( pool of players) international test series games are fundamentally different.

 

which also means u dnt have all the best players of the country 

 

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

1, skills - T20 skills are less intensive ( afg does well) more available in general

 

2, international level player base is divided by nationality and or kolpak or sub nationality (like scotland/ireland etc)

 

3, home team has curated pitches that swing favor to their team and pitches behave supporting their game plan often times.

 

i see fundamental differences when compared to T20 pitches which are market demanded to be in certain way. 

 

 

again not about individual or format- its about team building which requires- vision, culture, right set of ppl .....look no further then england who followed same plans to get back in LOI and have started re building test side as well

[kirkutfan]

20 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

model isnt about format the model is about team building and then add things like hiring best people, accountability 

 

 

No team these days have best talent for away condition but we arent even using our best 

 

 

which also means u dnt have all the best players of the country 

 

 

 

again not about individual or format- its about team building which requires- vision, culture, right set of ppl .....look no further then england who followed same plans to get back in LOI and have started re building test side as well

Shastri jokes aside, your points are really good ones. The advantage an organization like MI has is that its owners are single minded and will do whatever preparation is needed to ensure that the team has a good chance to win every year. They have experience being similarly effective in commercial corporate life. The challenge is for the BCCI to become equally effective in the way it operates. They have got some things right. For example, they definitely figured out ways to bring money in and the cricketers of today have better access to facilities, coaching etc. Also, to be fair, at least they don’t make the obvious bad choice at the national level. Saha v Pant is a reasonable dialogue. We are not saying, hey, where did that Noel David guy come from? But they don’t quite have the long range vision and the systems to implement that vision in place yet. 

[gattaca]

@express bowling So much effort for nothing. The main cause is kohli. He is not a leader and doesnt like people when they suggest anything or someone gains more popularity than him. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

The best example of incompetence of this TM is Vijay Shankar. Good enough to start as the number 4 in our WC 11, got injured but they have not even given him another chance.

 

Good or bad, once chosen he deserved a proper run. But most likely he's had his career ruined forever by the misdeeds of this TM. 

[Gollum]

20 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

The best example of incompetence of this TM is Vijay Shankar. Good enough to start as the number 4 in our WC 11, got injured but they have not even given him another chance.

 

Good or bad, once chosen he deserved a proper run. But most likely he's had his career ruined forever by the misdeeds of this TM. 

And they can't tell the difference between formats.

 

Shankar is a mediocre T20 player, may work in ODIs and even tests in certain conditions (Eng, NZ?)

Chahal is good in T20s, declined in ODIs since early 2019

Siraj in T20s lmao

Shami in T20s lmao

Dhawan as test opener in 2018 , T20s even now

Pandey, Iyer in T20s

List goes on and on, bunch of clowns. 

 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No team these days have best talent for away condition but we arent even using our best 

lol if you think India has best batsmen to bat in Eng/Aus - we drop our discussion here. We have fundamental disagreement.