Majestic Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trichromatic said: Which format are you talking about? Shami and Ishant are better test bowlers than Zak. No, they aren't yet. Zak is a better test bowler than Ishant. He is slightly behind Shami but Zak led the pace attack while Shami had luxury of good fast bowlers alongside him. Also, Zak still has more wickets than Shami and Ishant. Shami averaged 36 till Dec 2015 and Ishant about 35. Both did well post 2016 due to improvement in our pace bowling setup. Zak in this setup would have done even better. Edited February 2, 2021 by Majestic
neel roy Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Stan AF said: Because it is not the present era batsmen who are winning matches for india at india in the last decade but it is our bowlers. Mainly Ravi Ash and Jadeja. These two bowlers have taken 400+ wickets in a span of 8 years from Nov 2011-Nov 2019. These two are the main architects of Indian wins at home. Ashwin has taken 254 wickets at 22.80 in India from Nov 2011-Nov 2019. https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/26421.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;template=results;type=bowling;view=match Jadeja has taken 157 wickets at 21.06 from Dec 2012-Nov 2019 https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/234675.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;template=results;type=bowling;view=match A total of a mindboggling 400+ wickets at 20+ avg in a span of 7-8 years is the reason why we're so dominant at home. These two bowlers have a total of 28 5 fers and 7 10-fers at home. This does not include the trio of fast bowlers Umesh+Shami and Ishanth who have been doing very good as well at home. I need to check their numbers but I'm pretty sure their stats would be very good as well. The batsmen from 2000-2010 didn't have this level of bowling to backup their batting at home and most often had to bat us out of trouble most of the times. Another thing I will definitely point out is the quality of batsmen in 2000s. Its mind boggling that each team had 4-5 gun batsmen who we can just spew off without thinking , specifically the second level batsmen India: Sachin Dravid Laxman Ganguly Sehwag Gambhir Dhoni Australia: Ponting Hayden Langer Gilchrist Waugh Brothers Damien Martyn( killed India in 2004) Clarke Pakistan: Inzamam Mohd yousuf Younis Khan England : Thorpe Treacothick Vaughan Straus Pietersen Hussain Stewart Ian bell ( prime years) Nz : supposedly the weakest had Stephen Fleming, Mcmillan, Astle, Mark Richardson South Africa : Smith Amla Kallis De Villiers Prince Boucher.. hell Pollock had 3000 runs Srilanka: Mahela Jayasurya attapattu sangakkara samaraweera Dilshan Windies : Lara Chanderpaul Gayle Sarwan Hooper But if you think today we ll struggle to find 4/5 solid batsmen including india India : kohli Pujara Rahane Dhoni Vijay England : Root,Cook, Pietersen Aus : Clarke ( till certain time) Smith Labu Warner South Africa : Du plessis de villiers Kallis Pakistan : Younis Misbah Babar now Windies : really cant think of any Nz : Kane Taylor mccullum ( infact they have a strong lineup now with Latham and Henry Nicholls) So What I am trying to say is that the bunches of good batsmen playing together has disappeared and gradually teams are relying on one or two good batsmen to bail them out every series... Edited February 2, 2021 by neel roy kohli, Stan AF and Majestic 2 1
Soldier Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, neel roy said: Another thing I will definitely point out is the quality of batsmen in 2000s. Its mind boggling that each team had 4-5 gun batsmen who we can just spew off without thinking , specifically the second level batsmen India: Sachin Dravid Laxman Ganguly Sehwag Gambhir Dhoni Australia: Ponting Hayden Langer Gilchrist Waugh Brothers Damien Martyn( killed India in 2004) Clarke Pakistan: Inzamam Mohd yousuf Younis Khan England : Thorpe Vaughan Straus Pietersen Hussain Stewart Ian bell ( prime years) Nz : supposedly the weakest had Stephen Fleming, Mcmillan, Astle, Mark Richardson South Africa : Smith Amla Kallis De Villiers Prince Boucher.. hell Pollock had 3000 runs Srilanka: Mahela Jayasurya attapattu sangakkara samaraweera Dilshan Windies : Lara Chanderpaul Gayle Sarwan Hooper But if you think today we ll struggle to find 4/5 solid batsmen including india India : kohli Pujara Rahane Dhoni Vijay England : Root,Cook, Pietersen Aus : Clarke ( till certain time) Smith Labu Warner South Africa : Du plessis de villiers Kallis Pakistan : Younis Misbah Babar now Windies : really cant think of any Nz : Kane Taylor mccullum ( infact they have a strong lineup now with Latham and Henry Nicholls) So What I am trying to say is that the bunches of good batsmen playing together has disappeared and its gradually teams are relying on one or two good batsmen to bail them out every series... Bowling havgptten better.all rounders are better. Batting weaker. neel roy 1
neel roy Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, Soldier said: Bowling havgptten better.all rounders are better. Batting weaker. Except for Tail which has become better in last ten years. Top and Middle order has regressed. Easy eg: Tail defeated India in England ( Curran) and NZ ( Jamieson) And conversely Indian Tail with Master Jayant Yadav, Jaddu defeated England in 2016/17
Trichromatic Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 12 hours ago, Majestic said: No, they aren't yet. Zak is a better test bowler than Ishant. He is slightly behind Shami but Zak led the pace attack while Shami had luxury of good fast bowlers alongside him. Also, Zak still has more wickets than Shami and Ishant. Shami averaged 36 till Dec 2015 and Ishant about 35. Both did well post 2016 due to improvement in our pace bowling setup. Zak in this setup would have done even better. Unless he was ready to work hard. Zak wasn't exactly known for that. Difference between likes of Shami and Zak is that they are Shami is performing good at his younger years, so both him and Ishant are able to do so at good pace. On the other hand Zak was trundling when he acquired all the skills. By the third and fourth tests in the series, he would struggle do much. Having company of better bowlers would have hardly helped him if he wasn't working his fitness. Having good bowlers would have helped someone like Kapil, but I have my doubts with Zak.
Majestic Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 28 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: Unless he was ready to work hard. Zak wasn't exactly known for that. Difference between likes of Shami and Zak is that they are Shami is performing good at his younger years, so both him and Ishant are able to do so at good pace. On the other hand Zak was trundling when he acquired all the skills. By the third and fourth tests in the series, he would struggle do much. Having company of better bowlers would have hardly helped him if he wasn't working his fitness. Having good bowlers would have helped someone like Kapil, but I have my doubts with Zak. His failures during the first half of his career was due to injury and lack of management of our fast bowlers. In second half, he basically took 150+ test wickets at 27 in just four years between 2007-11 with no support as Kumble was no longer there and Harbhajan went downhill post 2007. Even Shami and Ishant during their first half averaged like 34 and 35. Shami got better after 2016 and the reasoning behind it was good support bowlers both home and away and also he moved himself from initial injuries he had. Even post 2016, his stats are not as good as Bumrah and Ishant and away from home in SENA, his stats are nothing great to write off. Bumrah, Kapil and Zaheer are India's best bowlers overseas comfortably. In Asia, spinners will always do the job for us. kohli and Stan AF 1 1
Rasgulla Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 Original fab 4 : Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman New fab 4 : Pujara,kohli,Bumrah and Ashwin Rahane can't play spin to save his ass. That's embarrassing for an Indian player tbh and less we talk about Tubby sharma in Tests the better. Majestic 1
Majestic Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 48 minutes ago, Rasgulla said: Original fab 4 : Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman New fab 4 : Pujara,kohli,Bumrah and Ashwin Rahane can't play spin to save his ass. That's embarrassing for an Indian player tbh and less we talk about Tubby sharma in Tests the better. This makes sense completely. Also add Jaddu
neel roy Posted February 4, 2021 Author Posted February 4, 2021 On 2/3/2021 at 3:49 AM, Rasgulla said: Original fab 4 : Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman New fab 4 : Pujara,kohli,Bumrah and Ashwin Rahane can't play spin to save his ass. That's embarrassing for an Indian player tbh and less we talk about Tubby sharma in Tests the better. Where is Aailaa lol in fab 4 Rasgulla 1
Clarke Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 ^^ gulla is his greatest fan and considers him above & beyond all athletes & humans
Soldier Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Jaddu Ashwin Gill Kohli Bumrah Shami Pujara Pant Fabulous 8.
Rasgulla Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 11 hours ago, neel roy said: Where is Aailaa lol in fab 4 He can be the bench warmer. Won't get into any of my teams.
Vk1 Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 we might have a fab 4 once Rahane is thrown out of this team but then VK will continue to captain
Trichromatic Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 7 hours ago, Stan AF said: Surely!!!! NO Based on this performance? One of the rare failures at home on flat surface. Happened to fab 4 also.
Yoda-esque Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 Am amazed how easily we call someone fab Stan AF 1
rtmohanlal Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 yet another proof ..... why this group is no way near that FAB 4 .... If opposition puts a big score it is a goner that this group will crumble under pressure even at home... it is the superior bowling & the 2 all rounders that has been carrying this team for a long time now...
New guy Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 On 04/02/2021 at 7:35 PM, neel roy said: Where is Aailaa lol in fab 4 Why give the troll any more attention?
Majestic Posted February 7, 2021 Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Trichromatic said: Based on this performance? One of the rare failures at home on flat surface. Happened to fab 4 also. I think Rahane is an inferior bat to Ganguly also, so that weakens the fab 4 argument IMO. Kohli, Pujara, Pant and Gill makes a lot more sense.
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