Forget about foreign teams, is preparing rank turners not injustice to Indian fast bowlers ? Is it good for Indian team in the longer run ?

[kubrickian]

I couldnt care less about the whinging Poms, but if we prepare only rank turners where 95% wickets are taken by spinners and seamers exist only to bowl a couple of overs with new ball and stand at the boundary for the rest of the game, this essentially means fast bowlers will only get good conditions to bowl when they tour overseas. Because any player essentially plays more than half their games at home, Bumrah, Shami and even upcoming seamers will need to settle for a mediocre career even though they are brilliant as Cummins or Rabada. 

 

BCCI will prepare rank turners any day which favor India because it ensures wins but is that good for Indian team in the long run when we are playing so much cricket overseas especially in SENA countries. Would it be better to prepare wickets which help seamers and also spinners on 4th and 5th days and also be prepared to lose a game(or even a series) for better contests and also improve all round quality of the team ?

[zen]

Ind tends to think on "short term" basis and focused on winning in certain conditions over the years so it has missed an opportunity to prepare players who can shine in most conditions by not preparing sporting pitches in general ... Ind spinners since 1990 have been among the most overrated ones, Lions in specific conditions, lambs in mostly the rest (w/ a few outlier performances once in a while). If Moeen Ali and Leech played for Ind, they could become local greats too 

[express bowling]

Personally, I like pitches where good quality pacers, spinners and batsmen do well.

 

There is something for everybody if they are good.

 

This would attract the widest range of viewers too.

 

And we have the team to win most of the time on such pitches.

 

 

[maniac]

India is a diverse country, the pitches should be diverse to make an Indian tour exciting.

 

Australia used to be  like that back in the day and so was India.

 

Chennai pitch was always spin friendly. Only difference is it used to have support for seamers in the first session.

Edited February 16, 2021 by maniac

[Suhaan]

Indian pitches have never turned thwir backs on spinners not even Dharamshala,yes you may see Pune, Bangalore (2017 Aus series) ,Chennai(this test) here and there

Another reason could be TM knows Shami,Umesh are bigger threat than Bumrah(who played his first test at home and thus no sample size),Ishant was returning, so they played safe and took the punt,it could had backfired but kudos to Hitman, Ashwin,Kohli(second innings batting) to fight it out

A full strength pace attack at India's disposal will not make BCCI to lay dustbowls

Edited February 16, 2021 by Suhaan

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

India is a diverse country, the pitches should be diverse to make an Indian tour exciting.

 

Australia used new like that back in the day and so was India.

 

Chennai pitch was always spin friendly. Only difference is it used to have support for seamers in the first session.

And it usually is.  Mohali.  Dharamsala.  Eden.  MAC.  Chinnaswamy.  All bring something different, not all spin friendly.  And if that isn't enough, we can also bring Dhuaan Dilli into the mix :-).    

[zen]

2 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

LMAO, are Broad and Anderson overrated? Did you see Broad bowl in this test, he looked quarter of a bowler Ishant is, in terms of pace, skill, aggression. And yet, he's the one with 500 plus wickets and spoken of as a modern great.

 

If Broad and Anderson played for India, they'd probably be called a moderate upgrade over Dinda.

 

They can be considered overrated too (though Anderson over the last few years has been good with the reverse) but more useful (esp. Anderson) than Ind spinners in general (as they will find relatively more countries/venues to make the most of their skills, which is not just mostly relying on the surface) 

Edited February 16, 2021 by zen

[maniac]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

LMAO, are Broad and Anderson overrated? Did you see Broad bowl in this test, he looked quarter of a bowler Ishant is, in terms of pace, skill, aggression. And yet, he's the one with 500 plus wickets and spoken of as a modern great.

 

If Broad and Anderson played for India, they'd probably be called a moderate upgrade over Dinda.

Mr. Kirkut Hussey averages 62.00 in Aus and 41 away. I haven’t seen the breakdown of that 41 yet but Mr.Kirkut for us is a legendary match winner and not a HTB. Make whatever of that.

[raki05]

45 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

Would it be better to prepare wickets which help seamers and also spinners on 4th and 5th days and also be prepared to lose a game(or even a series) for better contests and also improve all round quality of the team ?

Ya we did that and then Vinay (Ko Maar) and Rishi (Dhawan) wreck havoc in domestic and get into the flight to Aus and everyone knows what happens there.

Edited February 16, 2021 by raki05

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

 

They can be considered overrated too (though Anderson over the last few years has been good with the reverse) but more useful (esp. Anderson) than Ind spinners in general (as they will find relatively more countries/venues to make the most of their skills, which is not just mostly relying on the surface) 

Why not the same benefit of doubt to Ashwin who just had a fantastic series in Aus with both ball and bat?

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Ya we did that and then Vinay (Ko Maar) and Rishi (Dhawan) wreck havoc in domestic and get into the flight to Aus and everyone knows what happens there.

 

I like Aussie wickets ,they have bounce ,seam movement and spin as well more than English,South African or Kiwi pitches

Indian pitches offlate have been very sporting,but i can understand they were playing a fairly rookie pace attack at home,so they opted for a safer route

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

 

I like Aussie wickets ,they have bounce ,seam movement and spin as well more than English,South African or Kiwi pitches

Indian pitches offlate have been very sporting,but i can understand they were playing a fairly rookie pace attack at home,so they opted for a safer route

The last series had good pitches but in 2011 and 2014 the pitches were flat and boring. Out of form retirement home ponting was scoring 200’s. Hope we get the Aussie pitches of 90’s but Aussies themselves will lose to even WI and Pak on an off day if they make such pitches now because their batting bar 1-2 is at the same level.

[zen]

9 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

If the two most prolific pacers of last two decades are overrated, then what is this great point you are trying to make about Indian spinners?

 

need to prepare sporting pitches so players including these overrated spinners can develop their game better to make Ind a better most conditions team 

 

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

The last series had good pitches but in 2011 and 2014 the pitches were flat and boring. Out of form retirement home ponting was scoring 200’s. Hope we get the Aussie pitches of 90’s but Aussies themselves will lose to even WI and Pak on an off day if they make such pitches now because their batting bar 1-2 is at the same level.

Just last year they bullied pakistan,they will sleepwalk through padosis ,well Windies you never know , ability and skillwise they are far better than day dreamer padosis

[zen]

11 minutes ago, maniac said:

Why not the same benefit of doubt to Ashwin who just had a fantastic series in Aus with both ball and bat?

 

Good performance but exceptions do not make a rule ... his overall avg is still poor ... Let's not forget that Sundar did well too, so would have Lyon if he bowled to his own team 

[Vilander]

17 minutes ago, maniac said:

Why not the same benefit of doubt to Ashwin who just had a fantastic series in Aus with both ball and bat?

Well ...cause for agenda purposes maan .

[Suhaan]

Trust me Indian TM won't risk laying seaming surfaces against ENA

They will at best serve flat beds,like the one Chennai first test as we back our pace bowling to rescue us from any situation

But hint of seam ,swing we aren't that great facing those either even if it is at home

So given all resources at disposal best possible way to force a result in their favour they could only prepare a turner

Edited February 16, 2021 by Suhaan

[maniac]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Good performance but exceptions do not make a rule ... his overall avg is still poor ... Let's not forget that Sundar did well too, so would have Lyon if he bowled to his own team 

It’s not called exception when you are the star performer in your last 4-5 games played at home and abroad. You would have had a point if Ashwin did well in 2018 or something and has sucked since then.

[zen]

13 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

So your point is a wishy washy cliche about sporting pitches. Got it. Perhaps you should mail it to ECB so that their world beating pair of Anderson and Broad can bowl better than Indian reserves when playing outside England?

 

Sporting pitches at most venues globally would be ideal ... On green pitches, they can be found in more key countries (doing well generally only in Ind (and/or SL) means zilch) ...  The point is that by focusing on the short term to help certain type of players to do well at home, Ind missed the opportunity to create a better most conditions team. Ind spinners are the poster boys for just about what is wrong with Ind cricket 

Edited February 16, 2021 by zen

[Suhaan]

22 minutes ago, maniac said:

The last series had good pitches but in 2011 and 2014 the pitches were flat and boring. Out of form retirement home ponting was scoring 200’s. Hope we get the Aussie pitches of 90’s but Aussies themselves will lose to even WI and Pak on an off day if they make such pitches now because their batting bar 1-2 is at the same level.

We batted well then,but our attack back then was quite immature,no Bumrah either,defensive field settings didn't help too

A lot has changed since then, leadership do matters, both Dhoni,Kohli are bad in different parameters,Dhoni was least interested,Kohli looks clueless under pressure,his wierd reactive selections,not backing newcomers,just look at the things now,so called best batsman left ,almost entire team injured but the ones who came as replacements stood tall and delivered

I would credit Kohli who seems to have instilled confidence in Umesh(for home conditions) and Ishant (overall+a stint with Gillespie)though

Edited February 16, 2021 by Suhaan