What value does Ben Stokes bring outside home?

[Trichromatic]

Below average batting and support bowler.

 

He has been outstanding in England, but what value does he bring outside home?

 

Except Root, none of England batsmen average over 40.

 

Maybe he becomes slightly above average player with his bowling among set of similar incompetent batsmen? Does he get free pass because others are also failing?

 

Btw, all talks about being clutch and confident. That shows up in home matches mostly.

[Frustrated]

I fear , this thread might backfire on us.    Stokes is one of the best allrounders in the world.  And is already showing it in this test. As well.    

[nikred]

I am not watching the match at the moment. Seeing the title of the thread, I thought Ben Stokes got out. [emoji19]

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[AuxiliA]

He isn't as great as many of his fans claim him to be, but he still is a world class allrounder who brings tremendous balance to his side. Not to forget his fielding and intensity on the field. 

[sage]

Jinx thread

[Majestic]

Stokes is a terrific terrific all-rounder and an elite test player. Cricket is not a game of stats, he is a man for big moments who delivers under pressure.

 

Yes in subcontinent, he is a little mediocre but outside Asia, he is a genuine ATG irrespective of what stats say. Overall due to his average record in subcontinent, I will call him a country great and inferior to Anderson, Root and Cook. He is or should be ahead of Broad before retirement.

[Ajju]

Thondarapadi oka koyila mundhe koosindhi pandaga chesindhi

[Trichromatic]

5 hours ago, Majestic said:

Stokes is a terrific terrific all-rounder and an elite test player. Cricket is not a game of stats, he is a man for big moments who delivers under pressure.

 

Yes in subcontinent, he is a little mediocre but outside Asia, he is a genuine ATG irrespective of what stats say. Overall due to his average record in subcontinent, I will call him a country great and inferior to Anderson, Root and Cook. He is or should be ahead of Broad before retirement.

 

Yeah, let's forget stats and recall those big moments when delivered under pressure outside England.

 

Which performances are those?

 

[Khota]

I was told he is an allrounder when I said there are none.

[Lone Wolf]

40 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yeah, let's forget stats and recall those big moments when delivered under pressure outside England.

 

Which performances are those?

 

Lol I remember a test match year ago in SA when Saffers were cruising to a draw...  Every English bowler looked ineffective on a flat bed..  Outta nowhere Stokes came &,  he suddenly ran through Saffers & Eng won the test..  Not sure it was 3rd test or 2nd.  He is a mercurial player..  I'll never forget how he won Eng the edgebaston test against us.. When he got Kohli out again outta nowhere.  We should've won that game. 

[Majestic]

55 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yeah, let's forget stats and recall those big moments when delivered under pressure outside England.

 

Which performances are those?

 

Leaving aside the match winning performance in South Africa or New Zealand, he has won his team a test match in Bangladesh also. He is a genuine match winner. If he had performed in India also, he would have been an ATG.But still a country great.

[Majestic]

59 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yeah, let's forget stats and recall those big moments when delivered under pressure outside England.

 

Which performances are those?

 

Also, he has 5-fers and 100 in Australia and India both and his performance has been brilliant in South Africa and England.

 

[putrevus]

England need to use him more as a bowler that is how he brings the balance to their side. You sink or swim with your core players that is how teams are built. You don't change the core players depending on conditions.

Edited March 4, 2021 by putrevus

[Tattieboy]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Yeah, let's forget stats and recall those big moments when delivered under pressure outside England.

 

Which performances are those?

 

In this series 6 English batsmen have performed at 1-3 worse than Stokes  , name me 7 English players who will replace those six and him ?  

Your criticism has some merit but if there are much worse than him they need replaced more than him . 

To get the best of Ben Stokes number 5 batsman you need the first three to do their job first instead of constantly being 50 or less for 3 

[zen]

SDP had a 100 in SL, 90 in SA, 5-er & 50 in Eng (won Ind a test) in his first tour overseas but was attacked by many (rather than backing him), while clapping for “come to Ind” type players 

This only shows that even relatively experienced players like Stokes can struggle. Though I do not think extreme/out of the way conditions in Ind and SL should be used to judge performances. If Eng players fail here, they can always make up in SA, Aus, NZ, etc. While for many Ind players, it is limited to home (mainly 1 country + SL) and away (rest)

 

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

In this series 6 English batsmen have performed at 1-3 worse than Stokes  , name me 7 English players who will replace those six and him ?  

Your criticism has some merit but if there are much worse than him they need replaced more than him . 

To get the best of Ben Stokes number 5 batsman you need the first three to do their job first instead of constantly being 50 or less for 3 

Is that not the case for every no5.His value is not great if he plays just as a no5 but when he chips in with 10 to 12 overs in an innings. England wasted Broad for two tests. They should have played an extra spinner instead and let Stokes open the bowling like they did in this match. England have hamstrung themselves by not utilizing their allrounders properly.

Edited March 4, 2021 by putrevus

[Tattieboy]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Is that not the case for every no5.His value is not great if he plays just as a no5 but when he chips in with 10 to 12 overs in an innings. England wasted Broad for two tests. They should have played an extra spinner instead and let Stokes open the bowling like they did in this match. England have hamstrung themselves by not utilizing their allrounders properly.

No not the case for every no5 because England over the last three years have been three down for very little a lot more than any other test team . He should be a no6 and bowl but last 18-24 months he is now a no5 who bowls very little . That is because England only have one reliable batsmen in top 4 . England have not prioritised this series at all . Decisions taken on selection and rotation  a few months ago are stupid and if you study it all they have put more emphasis on Sri Lanka availability than Indian series but all's well because Eoin Morgan has a full strength T20 team against a depleted  Indian side. 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

No not the case for every no5 because England over the last three years have been three down for very little a lot more than any other test team . He should be a no6 and bowl but last 18-24 months he is now a no5 who bowls very little . That is because England only have one reliable batsmen in top 4 . England have not prioritised this series at all . Decisions taken on selection and rotation  a few months ago are stupid and if you study it all they have put more emphasis on Sri Lanka availability than Indian series but all's well because Eoin Morgan has a full strength T20 team against a depleted  Indian side. 

If Rahane walks in with 50/3 India is already in trouble.Stokes is fine as no5, he has technique to bat in top 5.Ashwin is very good bowler against Lefties so getting out to him is no shame.

[Tattieboy]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

If Rahane walks in with 50/3 India is already in trouble.Stokes is fine as no5, he has technique to bat in top 5.Ashwin is very good bowler against Lefties so getting out to him is no shame.

I am not the one wanting him out of the side , I replied to OP stating there are a lot worse batsmen being tried above him that are doing worse . Stokes will never be dropped home or away . 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

I am not the one wanting him out of the side , I replied to OP stating there are a lot worse batsmen being tried above him that are doing worse . Stokes will never be dropped home or away . 

I know you don't want him out of the team . But as English supporter do you think England is using him properly. Stokes is a such a valuable asset .