Vaccine theory

[ravishingravi]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.sciencealert.com/young-adults-who-got-covid-19-show-lasting-cardiovascular-damage-in-study

 

I can give you 10,000 articles like these. Which is why we say kids, do not google for medical stuff if you want to understand something. 

 

In 10 years, nobody is going to fact check these articles. Fear porn culture of US is invading all other countries. 

[gattaca]

 

9 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

 

 

B.1.617 variant which is causing the havoc started during Feb-march time frame. 

 

 

But it shows this variant existed before as well in the beginning of 2021? 

Edited May 7, 2021 by gattaca

[gattaca]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

You cannot get official figures for fraud counts from the very people who indulges in it. These are from Frontline workers. Several articles were published on after effects. 

 

2 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

I can give you 10,000 articles like these. Which is why we say kids, do not google for medical stuff if you want to understand something. 

 

In 10 years, nobody is going to fact check these articles. Fear porn culture of US is invading all other countries. 

 

 

It varies person to person and strain as well. Might not be large scale. But it does seem to happen. I read few articles where people had body aches lasting 6-8 months after covid. 

[ravishingravi]

1 minute ago, gattaca said:

 

 

 

It varies person to person and strain as well. Might not be large scale. But it does seem to happen. I read few articles where people had body aches lasting 6-8 months after covid. 

 

And I am not denying it. I personally know cases who took more than 6 months to get back sense of smell. But one offs is not science. It is not a case for fear mongering. 

 

We can talk and think about these things. But one offs are not norm. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

I can give you 10,000 articles like these. Which is why we say kids, do not google for medical stuff if you want to understand something. 

 

In 10 years, nobody is going to fact check these articles. Fear porn culture of US is invading all other countries. 

 

Please produce those articles. I also share. Let  us evaluate which one is likely to be true. You think all the medical establishments in all the countries are in on some sort of conspiracy. Anti-vaxers have zero proof other than unproven theories published by fringe community. So they better not misguide the general public. COVID virus vs Vaccine. I am sure very very few will take the side of COVID virus against vaccine. I have seen relatives. friends, colleagues losing the dear ones.  Some within days after they got infected. Here we are coming up with theories against vaccine.  If they don't want to take vaccine and they want to acquire immunity by contracting the virus no one is stopping you. But they should make sure they don't kill anyone inadvertently. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, ravishingravi said:

 

And I am not denying it. I personally know cases who took more than 6 months to get back sense of smell. But one offs is not science. It is not a case for fear mongering. 

 

We can talk and think about these things. But one offs are not norm. 

 

How would you prove someone is having the after effects unless they say it? You think science can detect pain in the body of human beings? When you go to doctor they will ask you what are the symptoms. They won't come up with an equipment and identify how you feel. So yea anecdotal evidence is one of they key in coming up with a vaccine.

[urbestfriend]

17 minutes ago, gattaca said:

 

But it shows this variant existed before as well in the beginning of 2021? 

THis is not exact data but sampling data calculated based on the current data. Obviously the detection of this variant and gnome sequencing happened in April. 

[urbestfriend]

25 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Its true. But we have to go with what we have. We can safely say that there is no large scale deaths from vaccination simply because its difficult to hide. 

 

I think social media makes it easier to share things now. But then again social media companies could be censoring. 

 

So, you are right. But I am going with what we have. And there will be inconsistencies. Which can be challenged. 

 

No one is saying there is large scale death from vaccination. However considerable deaths were reported, though it is miniscule compared to the no of doses, it punctures the theory that vaccine is 100% safe. 

Argument here is what triggered the mutation and whether the vaccination is effective against new variants. It is likely that many VOCs are present, and there is no study about how effective vaccine against these variants. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

Interesting thread. Which are the countries where Deaths/million have gone down post Vax launch? Genuine question.

 

[gattaca]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

Interesting thread. Which are the countries where Deaths/million have gone down post Vax launch? Genuine question.

 

USA but there are many idiots here who think there are fetal cells in vaccines and since they are conservative they dont take it. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by gattaca

[urbestfriend]

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

On 5/6/2021 at 1:28 PM, urbestfriend said:

Thanks for the explanation. I am very weak in this aspect, so pardon me for my doubts. 

 

Back in january when they conducted the survey, they claimed that 56% people in Delhi had antibodies when a random sample of 20K was tested. It means majority had already achieved immunity, If I understand correctly it is equivalent to 56% getting vaccinated. Evidence also suggests that despite protests and gatherings, we didn't have a spike in the cases. So at least we can agree that majority had developed immunity against earlier VOC.

 

Now when virus gets mutated, as you say some part of the virus gets mutated. If this were the case, I'd expect that majority would fight off this infection as their antibodies would've recognised them. SO in an ideal world, when decent herd immunity is achieved, I'd expect new variants of vitus is less deadly and severe. This is not the case considering the deaths. What explains this? If there are considerable mutation that our natural antibodies are of no help, how would vaccination which is created from earlier VOC  help. 

 

 

All great points.  The answer is 3-fold:

 

(1) Vaccines are developed to mimic specific viral components that are least likely to change based on how important they are to the virus.  Thus, the antibodies made against the vaccines are likely to pick up a broader range of variants, including VOCs.

(2) Vaccines are designed to elicit the maximum antibody response, as well as other memory responses like T-cell memory.  The extent of natural immunity varies from person to person. Seroprevalence data are qualitative (yes or no), not quantitative (how much).  So someone who had a tiny viral load would still have antibodies but they are not enough to confer effective immunity.

(3) Natural immunity works only for people who survive the infection.  You cannot predict in advance whose infection will skyrocket and kill an individual or pick and choose the 80% you want herd-immunized.  Since vaccines are not infectious, only immunogenic, that risk of death is non-existent.   

 

And in all this, I starting with the assumption that the seroprevalence sampling and data analysis were done rigorously.  I have no reason to doubt them, but people have called them to question.  

[BacktoCricaddict]

Just thought this might help this thread

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

Perhaps these countries organized Kumbh Melas recently .

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

 

 

28 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

Perhaps these countries organized Kumbh Melas recently .

 

 

Sherin Francis, chief executive of the Seychelles tourism board, said that while much of the population was vaccinated, there were pockets that were not.

Government data released this week found that of 1,068 active cases, around 65 percent involved residents who were either completely unvaccinated or had received only one dose.

 

Context, boss, context.

 

Until it is shown that serious Covid cases are increasing among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people, these data are useless.  It has been said from the very beginning that vaccines will prevent serious illness not mild positivity rate. 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Vilander]

30 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Just thought this might help this thread

 

 

 

 

 

 

Corelation causation

[urbestfriend]

6 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

 

 

Sherin Francis, chief executive of the Seychelles tourism board, said that while much of the population was vaccinated, there were pockets that were not.

Government data released this week found that of 1,068 active cases, around 65 percent involved residents who were either completely unvaccinated or had received only one dose.

 

Context, boss, context.

 

Until it is shown that serious Covid cases are increasing among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people, these data are useless.  It has been said from the very beginning that vaccines will prevent serious illness not mild positivity rate. 

 

 

Point being made is not that vaccinated people are more prone to Covid than unvaccinated. Point being made is Vaccination drive coinciding with an outbreak of covid and increase in death counts. Also it is important to analyse the data of vaccines belonging to different methodology separately instead of clubbing everything in one basket. For ex: Seychelles used AZ and chinese vaccine, so there is no point comparing that with Israel data which used pfizer. 

 

Also see that how they combine unvaccinated with at least vaccinated once. Why? Considering they have highest vaccination as it is a small country, it means majority of that 65% are vaccinated once.  Its like saying vaccinating once will not yield antibodies , and second time vaccination will miraculously inject you all the antibodies required. 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by urbestfriend

[Real McCoy]

9 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Just thought this might help this thread

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why don't you post where you got this from. That's supposed to rubbish this thread. Why don't you post that swiss cheese model   That seems more interesting than this.

 

 

[Mariyam]

14 hours ago, sandeep said:

Just like Delhi court "ordering" to provide confiscated Oxygen machiens for "judicial personnel"? 

People aren't infallible. People make mistakes. People will want to look out for themselves and their families.

 

We aren't  discussing individual frailties. I am not going to defend moronic orders like there.

I thought we were discussing the need of the courts to step in when the babu administration is at best incompetent and at worst indifferent and wants to make a quick buck.

 

The Delhi HC in the last one week has urged the Centre to drop the GST on Oxygen concentrator imports. It has urged the Delhi government to investigate hoarding of oxygen cylinders among the babudom. Prima facie, I don't see anything wrong with these comments.

[urbestfriend]

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by urbestfriend