Vaccine theory

[EnterTheVoid]

33 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

All I see from people skeptical about vaccines are those showing anecdotal evidence, some tweets from anti-vaxxers and CTs. Are you virologists part of any study or papers refuting the claims of the vaccines?

 

The most basic rule is lost on this vaccine denying posse: Don't self diagnose medical issues via Google.

 

It's not going to end well.

Edited May 9, 2021 by EnterTheVoid

[nevada]

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/delhi-surgeon-who-got-second-covid-vaccine-in-march-dies-of-virus-7307387/

[urbestfriend]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

All I see from people skeptical about vaccines are those showing anecdotal evidence, some tweets from anti-vaxxers and CTs. Are you virologists part of any study or papers refuting the claims of the vaccines?

Next time when you give your comments on cricketers, I ask you the same, whether you've played international cricket yourself, or at least domestic cricket to give your valuable comments.

[urbestfriend]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

Worthwhile thread with data from lots of countries. Looks like unfortunately and coincidentally too many of them had organized Kumbh Melas, political rallies etc at around the same time when they started their vaccination drives. 

 

 

This is typical anti-vax thread who is posting correlation vs causation graphs..This is not ScieNce. Stop this and vaccinate everyone 

 

*going to post dogecoin price vs India's corona count graph *

[urbestfriend]

 

 

TLDR but very interesting video and he makes perfect sense to me. I know many will dismiss him as anti-vax guy but it is important for the policy makers to evaluate what he says.

 

For those who dont want to go through this video,  Geert Vanden Bossche argues that second wave is inevitable with highly mutable virus with asymptotic carriers actively breeding new variants, and second wave comes when innate immunity decreases in majority of the population over a period of time. But mass vaccination expedite this process and it'll further breed highly infectious variants quickly. These new variants will become resistant to vaccines and vaccinating younger population will also make them low in their innate ability to fight the virus thus more mortality in younger population. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, urbestfriend said:

Next time when you give your comments on cricketers, I ask you the same, whether you've played international cricket yourself, or at least domestic cricket to give your valuable comments.

Exactly. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

11 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I did!

 

So we know who to thank (or blame!) if WHO unleashes Vaccine Passports anytime soon.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

All I see from people skeptical about vaccines are those showing anecdotal evidence, some tweets from anti-vaxxers and CTs. Are you virologists part of any study or papers refuting the claims of the vaccines?

Medicine is about evidence based and experience based treatment. Anecdotes are experience. Remdesivir use is anecdotal. There is no evidence of it being helpful in Corona and it has helped in some cases, not in some other cases.

[urbestfriend]

 

Doctor says first dose will give enough immunity for many months, so no need to rush for second dose after few weeks. It seems no one knows exactly about the right gap between two doses. First it was 4 weeks, then 6, then 8 and now we can have many months between two doses.

[EnterTheVoid]

13 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

 

Doctor says first dose will give enough immunity for many months, so no need to rush for second dose after few weeks. It seems no one knows exactly about the right gap between two doses. First it was 4 weeks, then 6, then 8 and now we can have many months between two doses.

 

Give them break. 

 

They're trying to figure it out as well. 

 

Vaccine development takes, on average, 10 years.

 

Doctors have been given impossible deadlines to make it work. With everyone clamouring for vaccines.

 

Stop taking pot-shots at them. They're trying their level best. 

[urbestfriend]

26 minutes ago, EnterTheVoid said:

 

Give them break. 

 

They're trying to figure it out as well. 

 

Vaccine development takes, on average, 10 years.

 

Doctors have been given impossible deadlines to make it work. With everyone clamouring for vaccines.

 

Stop taking pot-shots at them. They're trying their level best. 

Sure...But we are not guinea pigs to experiment...They should  do the studies and inform us properly..Otherwise this will lead to more confusions among general public. 

[EnterTheVoid]

7 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Sure...But we are not guinea pigs to experiment...They should  do the studies and inform us properly..Otherwise this will lead to more confusions among general public. 

 

They are in an absolute no win situation. 

 

They are asked to do in 1 year what it normally takes 10 years.

 

This really isn't the time to malign them. They're under the pump enough as it is. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

6 minutes ago, EnterTheVoid said:

 

They are in an absolute no win situation. 

 

They are asked to do in 1 year what it normally takes 10 years.

 

This really isn't the time to malign them. They're under the pump enough as it is. 

While I completely agree with the overall sentiment here, I think the communication issue is a valid one.  

 

Based on previous data and experience, they went with the 4-week gap for clinical trials.  Fair enough.  The thing is - it was working both in trials and real-world environment.  Then, serendipitously, they find out that 6 week, 8 week, 10 week gap also works in some cases.  While that may be the case anecdotally, there are no clear trial data for those gaps. 

 

So, no matter what, you stick with the 4-week gap as a matter of policy.  If there is vaccine shortage, you address it at the supply end, not by panicking and semi-arbitrarily changing gaps.  And this policy-making must be governed by an independent, apolitical, central/state agency led by experts with full govt backing.    

 

@urbestfriend is right about the confusion.  My mother was scheduled for her 2nd dose and 2 days prior got an SMS saying postponed by 2 weeks.  She is 77 y.o., had made arrangements to get help to go, mentally prepared to do so and boom ... wait two more weeks.  Just doesn't inspire confidence in the system.  

 

It's like in the US during the first wave, Fauci came out and said masks don't help.  Why?  Because there was a shortage of masks and hospital staff were not able to get them.  Fearing panic-buying, he said something with no evidence.  Then back-tracked, but his credibility was shot.  

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[ravishingravi]

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

17 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

 

Not just in India as this thread shows. Good to see people finally notice the Elephant in the room. There has to be a better explanation for this than coincidence, Kumbh Melas and Election rallies etc.

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

Vaccinated people becoming asymptomatic carrier is highly plausible though other factors like kumbh, rallies, assembly elections, panchayat elections also played their part but then this is what govt wants, left people dying.

[urbestfriend]

1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

 

 

An obvious explanation is when the infection rate increases, people rush to get vaccinated which was not the case earlier due to vaccine hesitancy. 

 

Another explanation is people are getting infected during the vaccination in centres which are breeding ground as many asymptomatic carriers may be present together leading to more cases. 

 

Third explanation by  Geert Vanden Bossche, that vaccination themselves expedite more infectious variants..Now I am skeptical about this and might be incorrect theory, but nevertheless it is scary, if it what he says turns out to be true. 

 

 

If what he says is true, US and UK are not out of woods, and just undergoing a plateau, eventually there will be new variants which are resistant to current vaxins leading to more mortalities.

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

 

[poi]

Being vaccinated doesn’t mean you won’t get covid or don’t spread it, but it will significantly reduce your hospitalization and death, at least for the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/Moderna) against the original Chinese and UK variants. For the new Indian variants, they may or may not. 

Covid Vaccines are for individuals not getting sick, not overwhelm the limited hospital/icu beds, and not dying. Basically, covid vaccines turn you from potentially symptomatic carriers to likely asymptomatic ones. If you can, get the vaccine and have your loved ones get it as well.

[poi]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

 

 

Of course, “more” vaccinated people are getting covid. But unvaccinated people are dying en masse. Fully Vaccinated people dying is rare and their individual deaths are worldwide headlines.