Vilander Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 MGR is a hill country Tamil. Basically an Indian origin Tamil from SL. Pirapaharan: Vol.2, Chap.27 MGR’s Role in the Tamil Struggle – Ilankai Tamil Sangam Understand the factionism among SL tamils and how they jostled for influence in Tamils Nadu, MGR did not create LTTE lol.
Vilander Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 lol this is just from few past weeks.. from UNHRC votes to belt and Road to Sinopharm vaccines -- its strategic embrace. GO holidaying Indians. Rajapaksa thanks Xi for China's vote against UNHRC resolution against Lanka | Business Standard News (business-standard.com) China calls on Sri Lanka to jointly advance Belt and Road cooperation - CGTN Xi says China has honored its commitment to helping world fight COVID-19 – The Island
Vilander Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: https://www.rediff.com/news/nov/29ltte1.htm Indians are too divided with your petty internal hate. What India has done in Sl is strategic capitulation. mishra 1
BacktoCricaddict Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 On 6/10/2021 at 11:06 AM, G_B_ said: If you read history the sikhs of delhi were vehemently against the golden temples bring barricaded. There were many protests against what the khalistanis were doing in punjab. They were victims for no reason. Delhi based Gurudwaras were raising alarms with authorities since 1980. Its not just the whole 1984 issue. Vasant dada patil in maharashtra was removed as a cm cause rajiv gandhi in the aftermath of indira Gandhi assassination felt he did not show enough "sorrow". This was code word for there were no riots/ "emotion" in nanded where sikh holy sites are. Vasant dada was pensioned off as gov of Rajasthan from Cm... So rajiv gandhi was very vindictive against those who did not physically act.. It tells you what the tone was. Is there a good book you would recommend on this topic? I have much to learn here. Thanks!
Yoda-esque Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 https://www.rediff.com/news/nov/29ltte1.htm There has always been strong support in TN for LTTE coffee_rules 1
coffee_rules Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Is there a good book you would recommend on this topic? I have much to learn here. Thanks! Mark Tully’s Amritsar is good. Read it in the 90s, when I was more of a liberal slanted. I have to read it again with my changed political stance. I have since changed my opinion of Tully after I read more about RJB G_B_ 1
Tibarn Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 On 6/9/2021 at 6:46 PM, Vilander said: A stateman is a very serious leader wonder where you get the idea that being a stateman is for PR. The definition of a stateman is basically just a respected politician. The thing with politicians and respect is that people who like them/what they do give them respectful epithets ("statesman") and those who don't, give them disrespectful ones. People with different views view different politicians differently. To me what you are advocating seems like a PR stunt on Modi’s end; that would not make him a statesman in my view, that would make him a nautanki. Once again, Modi is responsible for his own PR, it's not my concern. On 6/9/2021 at 6:38 PM, Vilander said: In correct. Congress was not an entity onto itself it was ruling party in the center. Terrorists should be punished they can't get away with apologies. You are missing the forest for the trees trying to be defensive when given a choice to apologise as a nation. It will bring reconciliation with Sikhs who feel they were unfairly targeted, say there are kalistani terrorists and say as a retaliation indira was assassinated does not mean every sikh is complicit in it, that ethnic riot is a blot on the nation there is only good to come out of acknowledging that it does not lead to any weakening of Indian position its a clearly dominant strategy. Look we differ in opinion here. ... This is a fundamental rift. Sikhs being killed by ruling party in center as a retaliation for indira assassination is wrong sections of Indians are to blame for it, the pain it caused to the community of Sikhs in India and now world over is something that India can and should address directly, there is no beating around the bush here. Justice, punishment are more important that apologies, but apologies will go a long distance in reconciling the estranged people. It's an opportunity infact. Underlined: Fair point, but the role of the central government hasn’t been established. I believe most people(everyone?) agrees that Rajiv was involved, but, because there is no smoking-gun, he will maintain plausible deniability and his party/family will deny his involvement. Bold: Technically, the Indian position, at least from INC, has been that they were riots(spontaneous and unorganized) not a pogrom(organized). An apology could be seen as tacit admission of the latter position. Red: It's more like you promising me that you will be able to grow a lush forest in a barren desert; I will believe it when I see it. Until then, it is wishful thinking, especially when taking into account both history and that what you advocate has already happened before, in 2004-5 itself. It's been 10+ years and even Pappu reiterated it. That leads to the question: Did what you hope for come to pass? It didn't because those sympathetic to Khalistan aren’t good-faith actors. Again, their “estrangement”, ie the movement, predates India even becoming free from the British and stems from their own chauvinistic ideology rather than anything the Indian state has done. They continue spew the same tired anti-Hindu and anti-India rhetoric at the drop of a hat, even toward people who have nothing to do with the situation. Some of them, particularly overseas variant, continue to propagate it as a Hindu-Sikh issue rather than an INC-Sikh one. FGS, these people even gave the farm reforms a religious color. All bending-over-backwards for them does/did is feed into their betrayal and martyrdom narrative. Pandering to such bad-faith actors is the same as talks with Paxtan, it lets their advocates pat themselves on the back as doing something, while actually achieving nothing but giving them legitimacy. The normal people just want those guilty prosecuted, that’s where any focus should be. Only Sajjan Kumar is in jail of the big names. coffee_rules 1
Vilander Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 47 minutes ago, Tibarn said: to me what you are advocating seems like a PR stunt on Modi’s end; that would not make him a statesman in my view, that would make him a nautanki. will read and respond at lesiure. But this statement above is an opinion. I differ which is alrite. If modi tries to reconcile punjabi sikhs - it might be good or make him look like nautanki etc. I dont really care for an Individual really. If you ask Punjabi sikhs ( not withstanding what was done to punjabi hindus etc ) if you ask a punjabi sikh how he or she will feel if Modi acknowledges the mistakes of the past regime - they will welcome it , they will feel included. This is reconciliation - its a state craft. Again stateman is a term and there is semantics - what i opinion it to mean and what you opinion it to be ir irrelevant for the discussion. What is meant is important, and that is a politician a leader who would do that for his country, include a group of people that felt wronged.
G_B_ Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 3 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Mark Tully’s Amritsar is good. Read it in the 90s, when I was more of a liberal slanted. I have to read it again with my changed political stance. I have since changed my opinion of Tully after I read more about RJB This..
G_B_ Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Vilander said: will read and respond at lesiure. But this statement above is an opinion. I differ which is alrite. If modi tries to reconcile punjabi sikhs - it might be good or make him look like nautanki etc. I dont really care for an Individual really. If you ask Punjabi sikhs ( not withstanding what was done to punjabi hindus etc ) if you ask a punjabi sikh how he or she will feel if Modi acknowledges the mistakes of the past regime - they will welcome it , they will feel included. This is reconciliation - its a state craft. Again stateman is a term and there is semantics - what i opinion it to mean and what you opinion it to be ir irrelevant for the discussion. What is meant is important, and that is a politician a leader who would do that for his country, include a group of people that felt wronged. https://m.timesofindia.com/elections/news/pm-modi-slams-pitrodas-remark-calls-1984-riots-a-horrendous-genocide/amp_articleshow/69276065.cms He has acknowledged 1984 on many occasions.
Vilander Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: https://m.timesofindia.com/elections/news/pm-modi-slams-pitrodas-remark-calls-1984-riots-a-horrendous-genocide/amp_articleshow/69276065.cms He has acknowledged 1984 on many occasions. Good but more is needed there should be some grandstanding some rhetoric built around it so that it sticks..
gattaca Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Vilander said: lol this is just from few past weeks.. from UNHRC votes to belt and Road to Sinopharm vaccines -- its strategic embrace. GO holidaying Indians. Rajapaksa thanks Xi for China's vote against UNHRC resolution against Lanka | Business Standard News (business-standard.com) China calls on Sri Lanka to jointly advance Belt and Road cooperation - CGTN Xi says China has honored its commitment to helping world fight COVID-19 – The Island Sri Lanka is a Chinese colony just like Pakistan will be soon. That brainless Nehru who gave China UN Security Council seat. Edited June 11, 2021 by gattaca
Vilander Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Tibarn said: It didn't because those sympathetic to Khalistan aren’t good-faith actors. Again, their “estrangement”, ie the movement, predates India even becoming free from the British and stems from their own chauvinistic ideology rather than anything the Indian state has done. They continue spew the same tired anti-Hindu and anti-India rhetoric at the drop of a hat, even toward people who have nothing to do with the situation. Some of them, particularly overseas variant, continue to propagate it as a Hindu-Sikh issue rather than an INC-Sikh one. FGS, these people even gave the farm reforms a religious color. All bending-over-backwards for them does/did is feed into their betrayal and martyrdom narrative. Pandering to such bad-faith actors is the same as talks with Paxtan, it lets their advocates pat themselves on the back as doing something, while actually achieving nothing but giving them legitimacy. I get your point of view it is a likely outcome but if it is a less or more likely outcome? One does not know and there is only one way to find out. There is probaganda influenced then there is the chauvinistic the malicious, it depends on whose lense one sees it from. When Sikhs get killed in Pakistan when India rolls our caa to protect them among others what should be the dominant rhetoric among such a population? its not getting the expected response all one gets is deep seated trust issue - sikh Conservative quarters view RSS as a threat to their existence in that they want to stay a seperate religion not a sect of Hinduism. On the other hand you have a an almost militant brand of central right wing populism that runs roughshod on any regional diversity, recipe for disaster. The schism will widen and fester, its not a simplistic path but reconciliation with Sikhs is the only way forward. Basically you have isi with its probaganda brainwashing overseas Sikhs, then there is trust deficit with hindutva with domestic Sikhs that is probagating a schism, India needs to handle one of them first, start closer home.
kepler37b Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Under_Score said: To kill that amount of people of one community in such a short time, it was only possible with the help of the police, the Govt machinery & at least few thousand goons....how many were booked for Murders & rapes? India needs atleast 5x-10x more police. We are severely "under-policed". Our state governments are extremely stupid. Wasting money on freebies and not concentrating on any long term society building activities. Edited June 12, 2021 by kepler37b
Vilander Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 10 hours ago, gattaca said: Sri Lanka is a Chinese colony just like Pakistan will be soon. That brainless Nehru who gave China UN Security Council seat. no brainless strategy less Indians gave SL Nepal on a platter to China.
Vilander Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 And yeah skirt chaser Nehru lol less said about him the better.
bharathh Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 58 minutes ago, Vilander said: no brainless strategy less Indians gave SL Nepal on a platter to China. India doesn't have the money to compete with China. SL and Nepal have been helped innumerable # of times by India - but all that is forgotten when money comes in. The Rajapaksas are mercenaries. They have sold their country down the river for personal power and money. Same with Nepal and the commies. India cannot compete. The best we can do is for the locals to get pissed off with the Chinese kick em out. SL - esp the east and south are overrun by the Chinese. In Colombo - you find so many Chinese in the supermarkets shopping. They are the new Sahibs of Sri Lanka. The locals are getting pretty red. They are keeping quiet right now... but the tension is building. All our neighbours need handouts. India cannot compete with the Chinese in this area. We have to wait and watch and build partnerships with China's adversaries. The Quad is a good start.
beetle Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 11 hours ago, Vilander said: Good but more is needed there should be some grandstanding some rhetoric built around it so that it sticks..
Vilander Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 4 hours ago, bharathh said: SL and Nepal have been helped innumerable Lol man you have some distance to cover.
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