" Seniority " over " Current Ability ", as the main selection criterion, is preventing Team India from realizing its true potential

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Indian teams have been following this Seniors first methodology for long. I have given a link of such a statement in my OP.

 

It's something they officially say. 

 

 

 

I think the same about yours.

We can always agree to disagree. Some teams like to give seniors long leash and some teams like to give seniors shorter leash but it all depends on the talent available in the system.

 

Aussies gave Steve Waugh a very short leash in 2003 but the same Aussies gave Ricky Ponting very very long leash.

 

In India seniors get first priority nothing wrong with that thinking IMO.If they follow your template then no player will be comfortable, how many game does each player get before he starts looking over his shoulder. 

[Norman]

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

In India seniors get first priority nothing wrong with that thinking IMO.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm...... 

 

So seniors should get the first priority even if they are in awful form for months and years and even if the younger players are performing well in limited opportunities they get in the seniors' role. 

 

And we wonder why Indian cricket hasn't achieved anything for over a decade despite boasting the largest talent pool and resources. 

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

.If they follow your template then no player will be comfortable, how many game does each player get before he starts looking over his shoulder. 

 

 

Performing and established players should get atleast a year to get back form if they lose form. 

 

ATGs can get 18 months.

 

That's long enough and players wont be uncomfortable.  

 

A mediocre player like Rahane got 5 years. Not done.  Pujara got 2 years. 

 

Regarding pacers, they sometimes lose fitness and pace. When that is coupled with bad performance, for 2 or 3 series, one should know that he is done. 

 

Then there are players like Bhuvi who has always had a low wickets per match ratio in every format but is treated like Malcolm Marshal. We should look for replacements of these players immediately.

Edited October 5, 2022 by express bowling

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm...... 

 

So seniors should get the first priority even if they are in awful form for months and years and even if the younger players are performing well in limited opportunities they get in the seniors' role. 

 

And we wonder why Indian cricket hasn't achieved anything for over a decade despite boasting the largest talent pool and resources. 

That is not my point don't twist it. If two players have similar ability like Chahar and Bhuvi (he has struggled recently but Bhuvi is better in death overs),  I would take senior player as he has more experience.

 

Having largest pool of players does not mean India has best talented players. Unlike you I feel India has done very well with limited one dimesional players they have produced in last 15 years.

 

 

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Performing and established players should get atleast a year to get back form if they lose form. 

 

ATGs can get 18 months.

 

That's long enough and players wont be uncomfortable.  

 

A mediocre player like Rahane got 5 years. Not done.  Pujara got 2 years. 

 

Regarding pacers, they sometimes lose fitness and pace. When that is coupled with bad performance, for 2 of 3 series, one should know that he is done. 

 

Then there are players like Bhuvi who has always had a low wickets per match ratio in every format but is treated like Malcolm Marshal. We should look for replacements of these players immediately.

You are now coming up with some random numbers. Lot of people here who are now supporting your theory wanted Rahane to become full time captain after Australian series in 2021 and you are saying he got 5 years too many.BTW  I never liked Rahane so I agree with you there.

 

Dhoni stunk as a t20 player and t20 captain all his career. It took him literally fricking  decade to score his first t20 fifty.He won that 2007 cup by sheer luck and is still regarded as this great t20 finisher and captain even after his retirement by many people even here. How did he get that label, some players are just lucky, Bhuvi falls in the same category he has somehow earned this tag of great death bowler.

 

Players with similar ability, I would always go for the senior player. Also I would never have senior player backup a junior player.I rather give the back up role to another junior player.There are always exceptions.

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are now coming up with some random numbers

 

 

What random numbers ??

 

Rahane averages just 32 in his last freaking 53 test matches in the last 6 years. I was being benevolent when I said 5 years. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

. Lot of people here who are now supporting your theory wanted Rahane to become full time captain after Australian series in 2021 and you are saying he got 5 years too many.BTW  I never liked Rahane so I agree with you there.

 

They were supporting Rahane,  the performing captain. Basically they were supporting performance, which is consistent with what they are saying now.

 

And Rahane batted much better as a captain and again lost form after that.

 

 

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Dhoni stunk as a t20 player and t20 captain all his career. It took him literally fricking  decade to score his first t20 fifty.He won that 2007 cup by sheer luck and is still regarded as this great t20 finisher and captain even after his retirement by many people even here. How did he get that label, some players are just lucky, Bhuvi falls in the same category he has somehow earned this tag of great death bowler.

 

 

So Dhoni was bad in T20Is but was persisted with for 5 or 7 more years.

 

This just proves the point I have raised in this thread.

 

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Players with similar ability, I would always go for the senior player. Also I would never have senior player backup a junior player.I rather give the back up role to another junior player.There are always exceptions.

 

I am talking about non performing seniors here. Not the ones who are doing well.

Edited October 5, 2022 by express bowling

[Norman]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

If two players have similar ability like Chahar and Bhuvi (he has struggled recently but Bhuvi is better in death overs),  I would take senior player as he has more experience.

 

Such a flawed logic and mindset.

 

What's the use of that "experience" if a younger player is going to perform at the same level as you anyways. Atleast the younger one can learn and improve with time and gain valuable "experience" 

 

 

[Vk1]

why is it such an issue if seniors are dropped.. do they always have to find form in internationals? can't they go back to domestics and prove their worth? 

[zen]

12 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

why is it such an issue if seniors are dropped.. do they always have to find form in internationals? can't they go back to domestics and prove their worth? 

Probably an issue for their fans, who find it difficult to visualize a team without them. 

[Vk1]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Probably an issue for their fans, who find it difficult to visualize a team without them. 

not that I support it but it's atleast somewhat understandable when they are under pressure to drop superstars like Kohli or Bumrah.. why are they so scared to drop a Bhuvi or Rahane..

[Adorable Fan]

The selection should be of no individuals but in the best interest of the national team. Whoever is in form and performing in the team irrespective of Senior or Junior should be in team. Any player not performing should be kicked out to go and grind in domestic and find form & come back to national team. National team is not place to accommodate the player egos and fans worshipping.

 

But we have seen long ropes been given for non performing seniors denying the chances for potential youngesters in ICT based on past history and numbers, average. The TM management create monsters who become too powerful due to this issue. 

 

There is no denying the fact historically TM thinking is flawed backing the non performing seniors hurting the interest of national team.

 

We have done well despite all the bullshit happening in selections but we could have dominated the sport.

[putrevus]

We will see how great so called  current ability is for juniors during this odis series. Gill has shown he still is far away from replacing anyone on permanent basis.

[express bowling]

If one failure is the basis for such sound judgement then what has Dhawan shown ?

[Frustrated]

39 minutes ago, putrevus said:

We will see how great so called  current ability is for juniors during this odis series. Gill has shown he still is far away from replacing anyone on permanent basis.

Agree.   Gill has got fair number of chances in tests by now.  Failed in every inning (exception of gabba).  Failed even at home against mediocre attacks.   Same in ODI.  Scored some cheap runs against Minnows.  Everyone got excited.  They forgot how horrible he looked against Eng bowling in July test.  Even on that flat pitch where Eng chased 400,  he got out cheaply in both inning. 

[express bowling]

We are basically still playing almost the same team that has choked in so many big LOI tournaments in the last few years.

 

This bunch can't perform in big matches and tournaments but will still get selected because they are big names. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by express bowling

[AKane]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

This bunch can't perform in big matches snd tournaments but will get selected because they are big names. 

 

and this makes them "experienced" !!

[Frustrated]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We are basically still playing almost the same team that has choked in so many big LOI tournaments in the last few years.

 

This bunch can't perform in big matches and tournaments but will still get selected because they are big names. 

 

 

As if these countless chokes by the same bunch of senior players over the past one decade are not enough, someone has recently created a thread titled "Why are we obsessed with youngsters?"   Sorry to say, but it appears as if these fans really deserve this epic thrashing over and over again.  

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

As if these countless chokes by the same bunch of senior players over the past one decade are not enough, someone has recently created a thread titled "Why are we obsessed with youngsters?"   Sorry to say, but it appears as if these fans really deserve this epic thrashing over and over again.  

 

 

See us pick almost the same team for WC 2023 barring a miracle 

 

1. Rohit

2. Dhawan

3. Kohli

4. Rahul

5. Pant

6. Hardik

7. Jadeja / Axar

8. Harshal / Shardul / Ashwin 

9. Bhuvi

10  Bumrah 

11. Chahal

 

And they will deliver similar results again. 

[Suhaan]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

because they are big names. 

 

These are artificial big names,no one rates our top 3 outside India barring Kohli but he is definitely into his twilight period

Kela isn't a big name even in his family,i don't think his gully ka laundas rate him either

Rohit was unfit to play t20 cricket since long for his low SR

 

We used to be batting powerhouse beacuse of high SR guys in this format for guys like Sehwag,Yuvi and Raina,once they left selfish stat padders took control and created a falsehood of being big names in cricket,mostly derived from inconsequential bilaterals

[Suhaan]

Do they even care to compete in International arena or only IPL moolah matters, eventually it will too downgrade in that metric too for Indian players are hardly box office in this format