Kohli does NOT bloody belong to the BIG 4

[sage]

He might not ever reach his peak again but i think he can be a top tier test bat again if he is relinquished of captaincy.

[New guy]

Kohli aman ki asha will let babar go ahead of him to fab 4

[Trichromatic]

34 minutes ago, New guy said:

Kohli aman ki asha will let babar go ahead of him to fab 4

 

KL Rahul, 

Rishabh Pant

 

Both better or at least same level of Babar. 

[SRT100]

3 hours ago, Adamant said:

Do you know this isn't the forst time an ATG batsman is going through a two year slump. 

Sachin Tendulkar went through a couple of two year slumps in his career, where he averaged 27 and 33 respectively and that too in the noughties which is known for being the era of flat tracks and he wasn't dropped despite not being the captain, so what makes you think Kohli would be dropped lol? 

Similarly for any other ATG batsman I can take out a period of 10 test matches where he avgd 25, slump isn't an uncommon thing, happens to each and every batsman. 

 

As for your arguments regarding Sundar, During Sachin's slump Irfan Pathn averaged higher than him, what does that prove now? Lol. 

 

 

Gosh you really are stupid.

 

Everyone knows in here that Tendulkar had injury issues and had trouble lifting a bat during the 00s.

 

 

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Kohli is not in a temporary slump, people who think once he quits kaptaani will be back to his best days,they are simply deluded,he is on a terminal decline and don't have those skills to compensate for the slow reflexes

He is on verge of getting kicked out if he was not the Kaptaan

Correct.

 

His decline is terminal, he may score the odd century but generally speaking he will fail between now and his retirement, more often than not.

Kohli is finished.

[Adamant]

15 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

Gosh you really are stupid.

 

Everyone knows in here that Tendulkar had injury issues and had trouble lifting a bat during the 00s.

 

 

Oh so you have justified Tendulkar's slumps, now should I list out similar slumps of other great batsman. 

The fact is that your argument is really thin. 

Every other great batsman had a one or two year slump, it's quite common. 

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Oh so you have justified Tendulkar's slumps, now should I list out similar slumps of other great batsman. 

The fact is that your argument is really thin. 

Every other great batsman had a one or two year slump, it's quite common. 

I really want to hear an excuse meant for Kohlis decline

[SRT100]

13 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

I really want to hear an excuse meant for Kohlis decline

Instagram.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by SRT100

[rollingstoned]

6 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Despite all the MC BC, bravado built of grit of remaining 10 players, all the digit selling, dumb captaincy, lottery selections etc etc etc , i still believe he is our best batsman. Show me one player who hasnt gone through a low cycle. Look at Rohit, a year back everyone dismissed him as an overseas test opener but he has been brilliant. Kohli will bounce back, he is just one innings away and it will come soon. 

 

 

 

i agree generally with the kohli criticism over here but i wouldn't bet against him making people eat crow in this series or the near future. 

[GeeGaw]

17 hours ago, Vijy said:

Good list, but even this is not the whole story. that's because there were players who excelled in their own conditions even if not "excellent" bowlers as such - likes of mulally and cork in eng, dion nash and simon doull in NZ, and so on. And Heath Streak is missing in the list because he didn't get to play that many tests; ditto for saqlain who was top-notch in the 1990s. I guess my point is that there were lots of good or even fantastic bowlers not on the list from the 1990s.

 

I just took what statsguru spit out and cut it off after 20 bowlers since the first list in this thread for batsmen showed first 20 batsmen.  The list goes on.

[vvvslaxman]

Tendulkar did sacrifice off side shots an entire innings to avoid off side dismissals. Will Kohli come up with a counter strategy against channel bowling. At this point it doesn't have to be Anderson. Pretty much any seamer can get Kohli to poke one. He doesn't have to completely abandon the off side shots like Tendulkar did. But he could take a look at KL Rahul's innings and see how he didn't camp on the front foot.

[vvvslaxman]

lol Strangely he rarely plays this in real match. HE just stands like a foot outside the crease and tries to meet everything on the frontfoot.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by vvvslaxman

[Lone Wolf]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

lol Strangely he rarely plays this in real match. HE just stands like a foot outside the crease and tries to meet everything on the frontfoot.

 

 

Anyone can copy these strokes & show off but in real time when your instincts take over its hard to pull off as it isn't your natural play.   Kohli probably from his childhood was taught to camp on front foot & try to play in the V & focus mainly on cover drives & play with a straight bat. 

This might be good strategy in India & to an extent Australia as well but in England/NZ & heck in SA you need some backfoot game plus strokes square of the wicket. 

In his prime years Kohli had found a way to deal with this but now bowlers have worked him over & they now how he is going to react to a certain length. 

[Vijy]

On 8/21/2021 at 6:46 AM, Adamant said:

Oh so you have justified Tendulkar's slumps, now should I list out similar slumps of other great batsman. 

The fact is that your argument is really thin. 

Every other great batsman had a one or two year slump, it's quite common. 

and most batsmen toward the end of their career enter a prolonged slump. Look at Dravid's record for the last 3-4 yrs of his career, look at Punter, etc. The same goes for the last years of SRT and Laxman, albeit slightly less prolonged compared to Dravid and Ponting. What we are seeing from Kohli is something similar.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Anyone can copy these strokes & show off but in real time when your instincts take over its hard to pull off as it isn't your natural play.   Kohli probably from his childhood was taught to camp on front foot & try to play in the V & focus mainly on cover drives & play with a straight bat. 

This might be good strategy in India & to an extent Australia as well but in England/NZ & heck in SA you need some backfoot game plus strokes square of the wicket. 

In his prime years Kohli had found a way to deal with this but now bowlers have worked him over & they now how he is going to react to a certain length. 

 

 

True.  Frontfoot cover drive & Backfoot cover drive. Reaction to different length has to be natural.  Kohli infact had a slightly better backfoot game when he started his career. His first tour to England messed up his mind. When he was in prime he was able to negotiate those deliveries even on frontfoot. Now he has to find a way to handle this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Looking at some numbers

 

Between 15 Dec 2006 (SA series in SA) till the England series in 2008, David went through. year period of massive form slump. 26 tests, 1324 runs@29, 2 100s and 7 50s. His career batting average slumped from 59 to 52 in this period. He moved on from captaincy and 8-10 months later had a resurgence of sorts and went onto hit 11 100s in his last 34 tests.

 

Similarly VVS had a 2 year form slump between the Pakistan series in 2004 and next visit to them in 2006. 25 tests, 1041 runs@32, 2 100s and 7 50s. Post which he had a massive resurgence for the next 5 years, averaging nearly 55 in 50 tests before fading away in England and Australia.

 

Sachin had a relatively poor 2004-06 (primarily due to injury).

 

Kohli's slump has been far more drastic compared to them. But there is no reason why he cannot comeback provided he hands over captaincy to someone else. Now wether his big fat ego will allow him to play under a new captain is something he has to answer. If he doesn't quit captaincy and isn't sacked by BCCI either in the next 6-9 months, there is every chance his career could well be over by the 2023 WC (or even prior to that)

[sage]

15 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Anyone can copy these strokes & show off but in real time when your instincts take over its hard to pull off as it isn't your natural play.   Kohli probably from his childhood was taught to camp on front foot & try to play in the V & focus mainly on cover drives & play with a straight bat. 

This might be good strategy in India & to an extent Australia as well but in England/NZ & heck in SA you need some backfoot game plus strokes square of the wicket. 

In his prime years Kohli had found a way to deal with this but now bowlers have worked him over & they now how he is going to react to a certain length. 

Why do you need more backfoot game in England than Australia?

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

Why do you need more backfoot game in England than Australia?

Lack of lateral movement.   In Australia you can wait for fuller length deliveries to score off.  Threat level while driving is not that much.  Cover the swing & you can try to play on the up.  Score majority of runs in the V if you want.  If you have backfoot game as well...  More scoring options.  

 

In England unless you get a full blooded half volley only then you are safe to hit cover drive on On drives.  Playing on the up is risky. 

The 3 quarter length is very dangerous.  You have to wait & don't committ to front foot. 

Watch Root how he hangs on back foot & goes for those late dabs & square cuts. 

Even when he goes to drives..  He targets square drives mostly by playing late & opening his bat face.  Something Rahul is also using to good effect. 

 

[Lone Wolf]

3 hours ago, Cricspin said:

 

 

I cleared this on another thread somewhere I don't remember.  Please actually look at Dravid's record.

 

Dravid did not go into a prolonged slump during last 4 years or into retirement. His loss of form happened during 2007-2008. from then on he was pretty good except the last Australian series after which promptly retired. Heck he scored 3 centuries on the England tour prior to it and was batting in a different zone compared to rest of Indian batsmen. He was the highest run scorer for India for his 3rd last (Eng series) and 2nd last (WI series) before the final Australian series. He retired immediately on basis of bad performance in Australia. During that last series no Indian batter stood out. Virat was high scorer with 37 average, Sachin 35. Viru/Dravid  both 25. 

 

Last 4 years (2009-2012) . Scored 5 centuries the year before retirement. What are people talking about all the time.

 

 

Lack of form during 2007-2008

 

 

If Averaging over 50 during last 4 years is prolonged slump, then I will take it any day. Please give it to me Pujara, Rahane, Virat and party.

 

 

Exactly..  Pujara Kohli Rahane are no way near Dravid's Test credentials.  SRT is in another dimension altogether. 

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, Cricspin said:

 

 

I cleared this on another thread somewhere I don't remember.  Please actually look at Dravid's record.

 

Dravid did not go into a prolonged slump during last 4 years or into retirement. His loss of form happened during 2007-2008. from then on he was pretty good except the last Australian series after which promptly retired. Heck he scored 3 centuries on the England tour prior to it and was batting in a different zone compared to rest of Indian batsmen. He was the highest run scorer for India for his 3rd last (Eng series) and 2nd last (WI series) before the final Australian series. He retired immediately on basis of bad performance in Australia. During that last series no Indian batter stood out. Virat was high scorer with 37 average, Sachin 35. Viru/Dravid  both 25. 

 

Last 4 years (2009-2012) . Scored 5 centuries the year before retirement. What are people talking about all the time.

 

 

Lack of form during 2007-2008

 

 

If Averaging over 50 during last 4 years is prolonged slump, then I will take it any day. Please give it to me Pujara, Rahane, Virat and party.

 

 

thanks for correcting me - I'm happy to be told of my mistake. good post and I obviously agree that I would take Dravid over any of these bunch of batsmen (incl. Kohli).