Likely Trend in Pace bowling in coming T20WC & Beyond & pace bowling selections

[Ankit_sharma03]

one of the reasons is you can have many of these middle order aggresors with trouble with high pace, hard length 

 

Russell n Pandya can be controlled if u cant bowl at their throat

With pooran n iyer area gets wider

even pollard isnt that comfertable when its 150k+

[Jay]

Think we should go with either prasidh or tyagi.

 

Bumrah

Prasidh

Shardul

Deepak chahar

Pandya

Samad 

Pant

Sky

Kohli

Ishan

Rohit

 

 

Tell me which team beats this side? I am waiting. I don't see it. I think we are favourites honestly. England won't beat us. We have wrecked them multiple times in t20 bilaterals. It's a joke to suggest that England is better. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Jay

[SRT100]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

India need to bring in more 90 mph+ pacers with white balls skills.

 

Bumrah does it in some spells. 

 

Speed Kills.

 

I agree. I think having an elite Fast bowler would be the best weapon for India. Im talking like Brett Lee, Shaun Tait style fast.

[prudent_kreeda]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Think we should go with either prasidh or tyagi.

 

Bumrah

Prasidh

Shardul

Deepak chahar

Pandya

Samad 

Pant

Sky

Kohli

Ishan

Rohit

 

 

Tell me which team beats this side? I am waiting. I don't see it. I think we are favourites honestly. England won't beat us. We have wrecked them multiple times in t20 bilaterals. It's a joke to suggest that England is better. 

 

First of all, this team with no spinner will never be selected for a T20 or one dayers . I will doff my hat if  this happens to the captain & TM ,

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

Speed Kills.

 

I agree. I think having an elite Fast bowler would be the best weapon for India. Im talking like Brett Lee, Shaun Tait style fast.

that's hard to achieve. I know of only one bowler who crossed the 155-156 kmph mark for India, and that was Srinath at his peak. I don't think the other Indian bowlers got to > 155 kmph off the top of my head.

[Jay]

6 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

First of all, this team with no spinner will never be selected for a T20 or one dayers . I will doff my hat if  this happens to the captain & TM ,

True. I think they will pick some mystery spinner that we don't need especially considering due factor. 

[nevada]

17 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Best India can expect is..  Bumrah along with Siraj.  These two could be very very handy in UAE as both of them are hard to hit. 

One of D Chahar & Shardul has to be there. 

 

But fully expect Trundlers like Nattu Bhuvi to sneak in over someone like Siraj...  As Trundlers are highly respected in India & have many fans & media backing. 

This is a country Where Talents like Mavi Tyagi are ignored & fellows like KM Asif do not even make it to IPl sides. 

Avesh was very good in the IPL, outbowling Rabada regularly. If he can make a solid comeback from his injury we can have him, Bumrah, and Siraj as part of the attack. Tyagi is a good prospect but needs a continuous run of 7-8 games to develop consistency. 

[express bowling]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

that's hard to achieve. I know of only one bowler who crossed the 155-156 kmph mark for India, and that was Srinath at his peak. I don't think the other Indian bowlers got to > 155 kmph off the top of my head.

 

I think they even out unnaturally high speeds these days.

 

Doubt anyone will clock 155 k+ with any consistency any more,  even if they are bowling as quickly as the 2000s guys.

Edited August 23, 2021 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I think they even out unnaturally high speeds these days.

 

Doubt anyone will clock 155 k+ with any consistency any more,  even if they are bowling as quickly as the 2000s guys.

Speed guns have now become part of propaganda machinery

[Suhaan]

Tymal Mills would be good addition,he operating with Jordan makes their powerplay onwards bowling bankable

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I think they even out unnaturally high speeds these days.

 

Doubt anyone will clock 155 k+ with any consistency any more,  even if they are bowling as quickly as the 2000s guys.

Nortje, Wood (if picked), Ferguson and Starc in that order will be the main contenders.

 

Nortje did bowl a few 155 kmph deliveries in last IPL in UAE with a top speed of 156.2 kmph, while Wood bowled 154 kmph in the 2019 WC.

[Jay]

15 hours ago, Vijy said:

that's hard to achieve. I know of only one bowler who crossed the 155-156 kmph mark for India, and that was Srinath at his peak. I don't think the other Indian bowlers got to > 155 kmph off the top of my head.

Bunrah highest was 153 or 154. 

 

We have plenty of 138-148 range bowlers. Maybe only one above 150. Saini if fit or Aaron. They can crank it up to 150. 

 

But In terms of rushing batsmen, it would be bumrah. His 140 probably feels like 147 ish due to the bounce, release point and how he uses the crease. 

[Samcric]

Since the example of IPL 2020 was quoted by a few posters, bringing that up below. Below is the list of bowlers with best economy rates (at least 10 overs bowled). Few key aspects to note:

1. 13 of the top 20 bowlers were bowling spin
2. Archer was the only standout performer of the so-called 90mph club. I don't count Bumrah and Cummins in that club as they don't bowl consistently in the 90+ range (they don't need to)
3. Bhuvi & Sandeep Sharma (~7 RPO) were better than Lockie (~7.5 RPO), Rabada (8.3) & Nortje (8.4). In fact, even Deepak Chahar at 7.6 was better than Cummins 7.9, Rabada & Nortje
4. I will definitely grant the point that the best exponents of hard length currently are the English bowlers and Jordan, Tymal and Wood didn't play. In the first T20 in Ahmedabad against India this year, they were very hard to get away. But it had a lot to do with the pitch which had plenty of bounce. My assumption is that we will not get such pitches in UAE. 

In T20s, ability to bowl 90mph is nothing without other skills like being accurate, being street-smart about what to bowl when, ability to mix with yorkers, short balls and slower balls etc. Otherwise, good batsmen will always line you up. 

 

 

 

Player	Bowling style	Overs	Ave	Econ
Rashid Khan	Spin	64	17.2	5.37
Washington Sundar	Spin	50	37.25	5.96
V Shankar	Seam (<90 mph)	13.1	20.5	6.22
AR Patel	Spin	51	36.33	6.41
JC Archer	Seam (>90 mph)	55.4	18.25	6.55
CH Morris	Seam (<90 mph)	31.4	19.09	6.63
JJ Bumrah	Seam (<90 mph)	60	14.96	6.73
CV Varun	Spin	52	20.94	6.84
Imran Tahir	Spin	11	76	6.9
B Kumar	Seam (<90 mph)	14.1	33	6.98
YS Chahal	Spin	57.1	19.28	7.08
R Tewatia	Spin	46	32.6	7.08
Sandeep Sharma	Seam (<90 mph)	52	26.71	7.19
Ravi Bishnoi	Spin	51	31.33	7.37
M Ashwin	Spin	31.3	23.5	7.46
LH Ferguson	Seam (>90 mph)	19.5	24.66	7.46
KH Pandya	Spin	50.1	63.33	7.57
DL Chahar	Seam (<90 mph)	52	33	7.61
R Ashwin	Spin	51	30.07	7.66
Kuldeep Yadav	Spin	12	92	7.66
PJ Cummins	Seam (<90 mph)	52	34.08	7.86
NM Coulter-Nile	Seam (<90 mph)	26	41.2	7.92
SP Narine	Spin	38	60.4	7.94
TA Boult	Seam (<90 mph)	57.2	18.28	7.97
T Natarajan	Seam (<90 mph)	62.5	31.5	8.02
GJ Maxwell	Spin	21	56.33	8.04
S Nadeem	Spin	22	35.6	8.09
Shivam Mavi	Seam (<90 mph)	26	23.55	8.15
RD Chahar	Spin	53	28.86	8.16
SM Curran	Seam (<90 mph)	42	26.46	8.19
NA Saini	Seam (<90 mph)	45.4	63.16	8.29
JO Holder	Seam (<90 mph)	28	16.64	8.32
K Rabada	Seam (>90 mph)	65.4	18.26	8.34
A Zampa	Spin	11	46	8.36
A Nortje	Seam (>90 mph)	61	23.27	8.39
SN Thakur	Seam (<90 mph)	32.2	27.5	8.5
S Gopal	Spin	50	42.7	8.54
Mohammed Shami	Seam (<90 mph)	53.4	23	8.57
DJ Bravo	Seam (<90 mph)	21	30	8.57

[Ankit_sharma03]

31 minutes ago, Samcric said:

In T20s, ability to bowl 90mph is nothing without other skills like being accurate, being street-smart about what to bowl when, ability to mix with yorkers, short balls and slower balls etc. Otherwise, good batsmen will always line you up. 

Exactly

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, Samcric said:

 

In T20s, ability to bowl 90mph is nothing without other skills like being accurate, being street-smart about what to bowl when, ability to mix with yorkers, short balls and slower balls etc. Otherwise, good batsmen will always line you up. 

 

Thats actually true for all the formats, not just T20s. If you bowl gun barrels straight like Varun Aaron did at 90+ mph, you'll have a very short International career or even LO career (thankfully he learned to move the ball slightly in last couple of years but still has limited control over his line).

 

But then if you have speed to start with, you can still learn some of the other skills. If you do not have natural speed, it's very difficult to increase and sustain bowling at high pace at relatively older age.

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Bunrah highest was 153 or 154. 

 

We have plenty of 138-148 range bowlers. Maybe only one above 150. Saini if fit or Aaron. They can crank it up to 150. 

 

But In terms of rushing batsmen, it would be bumrah. His 140 probably feels like 147 ish due to the bounce, release point and how he uses the crease. 

Aaron if had played more would have been our fastest ,he had that natural pace,he was even quicker than Johnson in 2014 tour to Australia (yes Johnson was ageing but still he was clocked 156 a year before against England in the famous Ashes 5-0 demolition job)

Just when he looked a little assured in late 2015 especially against SA test at home he got injured and never came back

Edited August 23, 2021 by Suhaan

[prudent_kreeda]

1 hour ago, Samcric said:

Since the example of IPL 2020 was quoted by a few posters, bringing that up below. Below is the list of bowlers with best economy rates (at least 10 overs bowled). Few key aspects to note:

1. 13 of the top 20 bowlers were bowling spin
2. Archer was the only standout performer of the so-called 90mph club. I don't count Bumrah and Cummins in that club as they don't bowl consistently in the 90+ range (they don't need to)
3. Bhuvi & Sandeep Sharma (~7 RPO) were better than Lockie (~7.5 RPO), Rabada (8.3) & Nortje (8.4). In fact, even Deepak Chahar at 7.6 was better than Cummins 7.9, Rabada & Nortje
4. I will definitely grant the point that the best exponents of hard length currently are the English bowlers and Jordan, Tymal and Wood didn't play. In the first T20 in Ahmedabad against India this year, they were very hard to get away. But it had a lot to do with the pitch which had plenty of bounce. My assumption is that we will not get such pitches in UAE. 

In T20s, ability to bowl 90mph is nothing without other skills like being accurate, being street-smart about what to bowl when, ability to mix with yorkers, short balls and slower balls etc. Otherwise, good batsmen will always line you up. 

 

 

 

Player	Bowling style	Overs	Ave	Econ
Rashid Khan	Spin	64	17.2	5.37
Washington Sundar	Spin	50	37.25	5.96
V Shankar	Seam (<90 mph)	13.1	20.5	6.22
AR Patel	Spin	51	36.33	6.41
JC Archer	Seam (>90 mph)	55.4	18.25	6.55
CH Morris	Seam (<90 mph)	31.4	19.09	6.63
JJ Bumrah	Seam (<90 mph)	60	14.96	6.73
CV Varun	Spin	52	20.94	6.84
Imran Tahir	Spin	11	76	6.9
B Kumar	Seam (<90 mph)	14.1	33	6.98
YS Chahal	Spin	57.1	19.28	7.08
R Tewatia	Spin	46	32.6	7.08
Sandeep Sharma	Seam (<90 mph)	52	26.71	7.19
Ravi Bishnoi	Spin	51	31.33	7.37
M Ashwin	Spin	31.3	23.5	7.46
LH Ferguson	Seam (>90 mph)	19.5	24.66	7.46
KH Pandya	Spin	50.1	63.33	7.57
DL Chahar	Seam (<90 mph)	52	33	7.61
R Ashwin	Spin	51	30.07	7.66
Kuldeep Yadav	Spin	12	92	7.66
PJ Cummins	Seam (<90 mph)	52	34.08	7.86
NM Coulter-Nile	Seam (<90 mph)	26	41.2	7.92
SP Narine	Spin	38	60.4	7.94
TA Boult	Seam (<90 mph)	57.2	18.28	7.97
T Natarajan	Seam (<90 mph)	62.5	31.5	8.02
GJ Maxwell	Spin	21	56.33	8.04
S Nadeem	Spin	22	35.6	8.09
Shivam Mavi	Seam (<90 mph)	26	23.55	8.15
RD Chahar	Spin	53	28.86	8.16
SM Curran	Seam (<90 mph)	42	26.46	8.19
NA Saini	Seam (<90 mph)	45.4	63.16	8.29
JO Holder	Seam (<90 mph)	28	16.64	8.32
K Rabada	Seam (>90 mph)	65.4	18.26	8.34
A Zampa	Spin	11	46	8.36
A Nortje	Seam (>90 mph)	61	23.27	8.39
SN Thakur	Seam (<90 mph)	32.2	27.5	8.5
S Gopal	Spin	50	42.7	8.54
Mohammed Shami	Seam (<90 mph)	53.4	23	8.57
DJ Bravo	Seam (<90 mph)	21	30	8.57

 

The reason behind creation of this thread is to highlight 

1.Change in thinking by teams about the best method of back end /death pace bowling . Earlier emphasis was pace bowlers bowling yorkers and length balls , then slower balls /back of the hand stuff came in . Now it seems batsmen have come up with ways to punish these kind of bowling . Hence they seem to come to the conclusion that most impactful death bowling would be one which maximizes effect of Yorkers , slower balls if the pace bowler has the ability to bowl some deliveries at more than 90+ and mix them with yorkers & slower ones .

2. They are trying to bowl more shorter length deliveries at the death  ( slower bouncers , quick bouncers ) as compared to earlier ,when emphasis was on yorkers & full pitched ones. Reasoning being chance of a boundary ball while trying Yorkers are much more due error in length.  

 

Hence believe ,going forward teams will be on the look out for  a pacer who has the ability to bowl some deliveries at 90+ and also has the variationlike Yorker , Slower ones , wide slower yorkers/fuller balls  , thus the difference of gap in speeds between a faster ball & a slower ball  is big enough, Yorkers /Full pitch fast deliveries will be lethal due to  speed at which it is delivered.

 This trend of preferring an out & out fast bowler with other change of pace variations over someone with 138-144 pace with same set of variations may catch up. 

Expect teams already having such bowlers getting preference is selection in the coming T20WC.  Expect England to pick Mills , NZ going for Ferguson , Milnes .

This trend is not just limited to UAE , this will continue and will also get implemented in one dayers too.

The intention of the thread was not to highlight that only 90+ mph bowlers  to be picked . In fact 90+ mph without other variations will be just cannon fodder as they can be lined up.

Preference will be for pacer who can bowl his normal deliveries at 90+ MPH  PLUS good skillsets with Yorkers , Bouncers , Slower ones  . Only then such bowlers become difficult to score . 

Since most teams  do not have such a luxury , it may take time but hunt would be on .

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by prudent_kreeda

[SRT100]

On 8/23/2021 at 3:08 AM, Vijy said:

that's hard to achieve. I know of only one bowler who crossed the 155-156 kmph mark for India, and that was Srinath at his peak. I don't think the other Indian bowlers got to > 155 kmph off the top of my head.

I thought Varun did?

 

I dont think Srinath ever hit 155.

 

 

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

I thought Varun did?

 

I dont think Srinath ever hit 155.

 

 

he did hit 98 mph, which is over 155. Of course, the accuracy of the speed guns can be disputed (which is understandable), but in a tour of Zim he had a ball at that speed.

[prudent_kreeda]

Looks like NZ has one more guy getting ready in the mould of Lockie  -Ben Sears .