Formula for beating India is so simple in any format

[maniac]

Get your best fast bowler with skills especially if he can swing the ball and go all out in the first few. Give them an extended spell if possible. Hope they get the top 3 out and game over.

 

seen it in Odi, T20 and now test cricket.

 

This strategy is so elementary when it comes to India for the opposition, it’s not even some new scientific discovery.
 

With this obvious vulnerability we will never be the WI or Aus type dominant team even if we get 10 more world class pacers and spinners.

 

Our test and T20 middle order include guys like Rahane,Pujara, SKY,Kishen (still start of their careers),Pant, Pandya,Jadeja,Iyer.
 

Not sure how much confidence that gives.

 

Teams have used Anderson,Boult,Amir etc all swing bowlers against us. Aus had done it in the past with Jhye Richardson and Beherendoff.

 

In the Past WI middle order at their peak had Lloyd,Kalicharan,Richardson etc in the middleorder. 
 

Aus team had Gilchrist (in tests), Damien Martyn ( most underrated batsmen ever), Andrew Symonds,Mike Hussey etc in the middle order at their peak.

 

We don’t have any such players in the middle.

 

This theory that great bowling unit will make the team invincible is a myth. Teams need great middle orders also  to be successful.

 

Pakistan had a dream bowling attack in the 90’s but they were never the best team. SA has a fantastic bowling line up now but they are a mid tier team because of non existent middle order.

 

Get ready for yet another bad day in knockouts unless new guys like SKY etc can live up to the promise.

Edited August 31, 2021 by maniac

[Adamant]

The loi teams are no longer dependent on top three.

Actually the top three now need to change their style of play as we no longer need them to play till 35 - 40 overs(post 19 wc). 

Pant, Sky, Rahul and Pandya have made our Middle order strong.

 

In tests I don't even know what you mean by top 3 dependence? Are you just talking about this series? Coz before this series we won against Eng and Aus without top 3 dominance, so it looks like you are confused or maybe you are reading too much into last two three games. Two three games isn't a good enough sample size, actually our lower order has been saving our ass in test cricket not our top 3.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Aus team had Gilchrist (in tests),

we have pant 

[Lord]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Get your best fast bowler with skills especially if he can swing the balls and go all out in the first few. Give them an extended spell if possible. Hope they get the top 3 out and game over.

 

seen it in Odi, T20 and now test cricket.

 

This strategy is so elementary when it comes to India for the opposition, it’s not even some new scientific discovery.
 

With this obvious vulnerability we will never be the WI or Aus type dominant team even if we get 10 more world class pacers and spinners.

 

Our test and T20 middle order include guys like Rahane,Pujara, SKY,Kishen (still start of their careers),Pant, Pandya,Jadeja,Iyer.
 

Not sure how much confident that gives.

 

Teams have used Anderson,Boult,Amir etc all swing bowlers against us. Aus had done it in the past with Jhye Richardson and Beherendoff.

 

In the Past WI middle order at their peak had Lloyd,Kalicharan,Richardson etc in the middleorder. 
 

Aus team had Gilchrist (in tests), Damien Martyn ( most underrated batsmen ever), Andrew Symonds,Mike Hussey etc in the middle order at their peak.

 

We don’t have any such players in the middle.

 

This theory that great bowling unit will make the team invincible is a myth. Teams need great middle orders also  to be successful.

 

Pakistan had a dream bowling attack in the 90’s but they were never the best team. SA has a fantastic bowling line up now but they are a mid tier team because of non existent middle order.

 

Get ready for yet another bad day in knockouts unless new guys like SKY etc can live up to the promise.

 

in WT20? I'm hoping there won't be much swing in UAE. Bounce yes but shouldn't be any swing

[Ankit_sharma03]

20 minutes ago, Adamant said:

The loi teams are no longer dependent on top three.

Agree, last 1-2 yrs - KL, iyer, Jadeja, Pandya, pant all have stepped up time to time 

If anything top 3 are not able to provide them momentum and are playing cricket of 2015

[Suhaan]

Not a word for decomposed top 3 in lois

[maniac]

32 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agree, last 1-2 yrs - KL, iyer, Jadeja, Pandya, pant all have stepped up time to time 

 

even Bumrah and Shami stepped up in a one off game in tests or I remember Saini and probably Thakur did in another game.

 

Look slight difference, on their best day our middle order can maybe get us to 250-300 max type middle of the road target to give our bowling a shot at the opposition but they won’t make 330-350 if top 3 go cheaply. 
 

Chasing well get top 3 out and it’s game over for us.

 

We tend to undermine our bowling but in every format we got the top 2-3 attack in the world, so our bowlers will save our backside more often than not but apart from top3 the middle Order as it stands today won’t bail us out 9/10 times.

 

Tests well Australia was an anomaly where every single player from 1-11 stepped up, so I am going to exclude such miracles.

 

We just lost 8 wickets for 68 runs in the last game and had it not been Bumrah and Shami’s fluke with the bat or England’s brain fart or our world class bowling we would be 2-0 down or who knows even 3-0 if the first game was played and we lost a couple of quick wickets. 
 

In T20’s if Rohit, Dhawan/Rahul, Kohli get out cheaply we will max get to 140ish type score on our best day and maybe 160 on our luckiest day. That’s about it.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by maniac

[maniac]

8 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Not a word for decomposed top 3 in lois

we lost to Srilanka C without the 2/3 and one of the game we won was because of Dhawan and Shaw (opening bat) and the other we won unexpectedly due to Chahar.

 

T20 lesser said the better.

 

So again why top 3 is getting blamed?
 

I am not even talking about Rohit,Kohli,Dhawan here, I am just talking about the lack of that convincing  presence in the middle order in any of the 3 formats.

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

even Bumrah and Shami stepped up in a one off game in tests or I remember Saini and probably Thakur did in another game.

 

Its not one game these guys have been stepping up again n again , KL being the most consistent one 

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Look slight difference, on their best day our middle order can maybe get us to 250-300 max type middle of the road target to give our bowling a shot at the opposition but they won’t make 330-350 if top 3 go cheaply. 
 

 

Once top 3 is out its hard for any side to chase 350 and in a pressure game its next to impossible

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Chasing well get top 3 out and it’s game over for us.

 

Pretty much for everyone

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

We tend to undermine our bowling but in every format we got the top 2-3 attack in the world, so our bowlers will save our backside more often than not but apart from top3 the middle Order as it stands today won’t bail us out 9/10 times.

 

Our middle order in ODI have been pretty good after 2019 Wc 

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Tests well Australia was an anomaly where every single player from 1-11 stepped up, so I am going to exclude such miracles.

 

Test was a problem looming for years 

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

We just lost 8 wickets for 68 runs in the last game and had it not been Bumrah and Shami’s fluke with the bat or England’s brain fart or our world class bowling we would be 2-0 down or who knows even 3-0 if the first game was played and we lost a couple of quick wickets. 
 

In T20’s if Rohit, Dhawan/Rahul, Kohli get out cheaply we will max get to 140ish type score on our best day and maybe 160 on our luckiest day. That’s about it.

 

 

in t20 we have played with new middle order much...u need to give them time to settle n know their roles . As of now our t20 order has been made a khichdi by kohli...no one knws what the order is 

 

[maniac]

45 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

in WT20? I'm hoping there won't be much swing in UAE. Bounce yes but shouldn't be any swing

UAE or Middle East, there is some swing early on and reverse swing much later. Pacers will be as important as spinners in these conditions.

 

Tier 1:

 

India,Pakistan, Newzealand are the top 3 favs for me in Wt20. They have fast bowlers who can exploit dry conditions and decent spinners. Their batsmen are decent in these conditions.

 

Tier 2:

 

England pacers are  a little one dimensional even though their spin is decent and I don’t rate their batting in these conditions.

 

Aussie batting sucks and spin cupboard is average but their fast bowlers are good in reverse swinging conditions.

 

Tier 3

WI,SA will be dangerous if they somehow sneak in to the semis, that’s their best shot.

 

Tier 4

SL,Afghan and Bangla might spoil the party for a few but that’s about it. If they reach semis some how it’s great but don’t see them have enough gas to go all the way.

 

Rest are making up the numbers anyways.

 

Thats my ranking

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

UAE or Middle East, there is some swing early on and reverse swing much later.

20 over men konsa ball reverse swing hone wala hai , unless pitches become way way to dry their is some chance

 

Last IPL pitches remained good through out apart from Sharjah 

 

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

England pacers are  a little one dimensional even though their spin is decent and I don’t rate their batting in these conditions.

 

Jordan, wood arent one dimensional ....add curran, garton and acc to news it ll be mills for archer which makes it a pretty good attack

 

WI pace attacks is one the lacks pace and is mostly about cutters

 

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Aussie batting sucks and spin cupboard is average but their fast bowlers are good in reverse swinging conditions.

 

swepson n zampa are much better then kulcha currently

[Prabhdeep Singh]

In addition, Indian batsmen seems to have issue with personal milestones or drink breaks, or coming out after sessions.

 

Whenever Indian batsmen near a 50 or 100 they get bogged down, all the opposition gets aware of this and puts pressure on the batsmen. Whereas the opposition have no issues when facing similar situation.

 

Indian batsmen also don't carry their form from session to session, or when batting overnight.

 

A lot of work needs to be done temperament wise.

 

The batsmen are either too attacking or too defensive.

[Vickydev]

In LOIs contrary to tests, its our bowling which looks least threatening. Lack of wicket takers in Middle overs

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

there is some swing early on and reverse swing much later.

and if if if if if it reverses ...starc akela 3-4 teams ko barbaad kr dega 

Jordan also is good at reverse 

Lockie also can exploit it very well

 

So this is a past perception that only pakistan can exploit reverse , other teams can do it now 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, Vickydev said:

In LOIs contrary to tests, its our bowling which looks least threatening. Lack of wicket takers in Middle overs

yup our ODI bowling has become worrysome with only bumrah who looks like a fixed one.

T20 is good specially if Kohli shows trust in ashwin n rahul chahar, its becomes a very good attack

[Suhaan]

26 minutes ago, maniac said:

we lost to Srilanka C without the 2/3 and one of the game we won was because of Dhawan and Shaw (opening bat) and the other we won unexpectedly due to Chahar.

 

T20 lesser said the better.

 

So again why top 3 is getting blamed?
 

I am not even talking about Rohit,Kohli,Dhawan here, I am just talking about the lack of that convincing  presence in the middle order in any of the 3 formats.

And i was talking about Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli

 

The T20 leg was more of a formality or a goodwill gesture of BCCI,we were hands down weaker

It came down to Dravid taking the field,so yes less said the better

Edited August 31, 2021 by Suhaan

[Jay]

3 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Didn't we have fab4 alongside sehwag ,how many wcs and foreign tours did they win?

Need both. Put this bowling with fab 4 then they would dominate everyone. 

 

However problem we have right now is that our middle order has aged together. Need to phase them out.

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yup our ODI bowling has become worrysome with only bumrah who looks like a fixed one.

T20 is good specially if Kohli shows trust in ashwin n rahul chahar, its becomes a very good attack

Would say Natrajan bumrah and siraj would be formidable. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

24 minutes ago, Jay said:

Would say Natrajan bumrah and siraj would be formidable. 

• Bumrah
• siraj
• Bhuvi
• Deepak Chahar
• Natrajan
• Rahul chahar
• Varun. C 

Its a very good t20 attack

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

Need both. Put this bowling with fab 4 then they would dominate everyone. 

 

However problem we have right now is that our middle order has aged together. Need to phase them out.

Pujara- Rahane have been inconsistent overseas for very long ...kohli intially was making good runs overseas but his form went away and other 2 remained inconsistent .

I think we also use to say the day kohli's form goes it ll be really bad

 

Pujara has declined 

Rahane is same old inconsistent, tentative (he actually has just been going down post his 1st overseas cycle)