Formula for beating India is so simple in any format

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Pujara- Rahane have been inconsistent overseas for very long ...kohli intially was making good runs overseas but his form went away and other 2 remained inconsistent .

I think we also use to say the day kohli's form goes it ll be really bad

 

Pujara has declined 

Rahane is same old inconsistent, tentative (he actually has just been going down post his 1st overseas cycle)

Yea. 

 

Middle order for future has to be

 

Rahul 

Gill

Pant

 

Looks so much better. 

 

Top 3 has to be for future?

 

Amolpreet Singh (remember this name guys)

Rohit/vihari/bhui/eeshwaran

Mayank

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

 

Amolpreet Singh (remember this name guys)

 

His form has been bad for few seasons now

 

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

Rohit/vihari/bhui/eeshwaran

 

Ricky bhui ???

 

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

Mayank

 

 

 

Mayank has to many many problems in his game against seam n swing, i dnt see him having a long career

 

Shankar was one solid guy that shud have been in mix but selectors arent even look

 

[Jay]

33 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

His form has been bad for few seasons now

 

 

Ricky bhui ???

 

 

Mayank has to many many problems in his game against seam n swing, i dnt see him having a long career

 

Shankar was one solid guy that shud have been in mix but selectors arent even look

 

what do you say for top 3 then? 

mayank in number 3 is good man i feel. 

 

shankar yes absolutely. but paindu salah wont pick him after playing him in the wrong format. funnily enough he did well even in odi. we dint lose when he played. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

what do you say for top 3 then? 

 

As of now rohit is least of our problem, We can keep Rahul open for time

Gill can go down at 3

 

 

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

mayank in number 3 is good man i feel. 

 

Ill rather invest in shaw, he also has his issue but in terms of talent he is ahead and plays short stuff better then Mayank. 

Also he is pure pure attacking player who on his days will have impact. So he ll have few odd good knocks in between and that to impactful ones

 

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

shankar yes absolutely. but paindu salah wont pick him after playing him in the wrong format. funnily enough he did well even in odi. we dint lose when he played. 

 

 

 

Honestly the test batting stocks arent very exciting.

 

These are the players ill keep in mix for red ball

 

• gill
• shaw
• Shankar
• Devdutt (i think he ll do well in middle, also doesnt have short ball problem)
• Vihari (although not a fan of him)
• Panchal 
• Easwaran
• Sundar ( TN and India-A has to make him start to bat up the order so he learns how to build an innings into big scores)  

 

Panchal n Easwaran have ben part of India-A setup so lets keep them in mix since our options arent much. But im not keeping my hopes very high as i knw they ll be very inconsistent may be even more then our current middle order

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

As of now rohit is least of our problem, We can keep Rahul open for time

Gill can go down at 3

 

 

 

Ill rather invest in shaw, he also has his issue but in terms of talent he is ahead and plays short stuff better then Mayank. 

Also he is pure pure attacking player who on his days will have impact. So he ll have few odd good knocks in between and that to impactful ones

 

 

Honestly the test batting stocks arent very exciting.

 

These are the players ill keep in mix for red ball

 

• gill
• shaw
• Shankar
• Devdutt (i think he ll do well in middle, also doesnt have short ball problem)
• Vihari (although not a fan of him)
• Panchal 
• Easwaran
• Sundar ( TN and India-A has to make him start to bat up the order so he learns how to build an innings into big scores)  

 

Panchal n Easwaran have ben part of India-A setup so lets keep them in mix since our options arent much. But im not keeping my hopes very high as i knw they ll be very inconsistent may be even more then our current middle order

Yea dude our batting depth is terrible. 

 

We have literally 2 batsmen. 1.5 more like as Pant is hit or miss. Hopefully with Gill, shaw it will be stronger. Sundar as well. I think it looks stronger when we have Rahul sudnar Pant in middle. Shaw, rohit and perhaps panchal or mayank. 

 

Steve Smith on God mode is equal to 4 players. That's how lucky Australia is. We don't have a player like that. 

 

England have root who is equal to 3 players in God mode. Plus stokes and buttler etc. Bowlers can bat. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Yea dude our batting depth is terrible. 

 

We have literally 2 batsmen. 1.5 more like as Pant is hit or miss. Hopefully with Gill, shaw it will be stronger. Sundar as well. I think it looks stronger when we have Rahul sudnar Pant in middle. Shaw, rohit and perhaps panchal or mayank. 

 

Steve Smith on God mode is equal to 4 players. That's how lucky Australia is. We don't have a player like that. 

 

England have root who is equal to 3 players in God mode. Plus stokes and buttler etc. Bowlers can bat. 

Because Pant is a wk/batsman, not a batsman.

[nevada]

Our batting is hopeless barring the openers and occasional rescue acts from Pant,. Sundar etc. We don't deserve to be called a champion side with such mediocrity

 We have a good middle order but only on paper, unfortunately. Big 3 have been underwhelming for 2 years now, to the point of being satisfied with just the odd 50-70. Don't remember any team ever going through such a collective decline of the entire middle order. Instead of using Jaddu to cover up for AWOL big 3, new specialist batsmen need to be tried out. 

[New guy]

12 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Didn't we have fab4 alongside sehwag ,how many wcs and foreign tours did they win?

The value of batting is in drawing tests, which is why, till the time they went off form, we never faced humiliating white washes in test series, loses were also close ones

 

I think this is best emphasized by our record in Aus under big 4. From 2001 to 2010, Australia were at their peak, they had ATG batsmen and bowlers and their record at home was like current indias home record. they trampled every team

 

Take a look at the Aussie record at home (in australia)

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/2.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

Against India 8 matches, 3 wins, 2 losses, 3 draws

 

Only india, south africa and england have any wins against them at all. 

 

against South Africa, 9 matches - 6 wins, 2 loss, 1 draw

 

Against England 14 matches 10 wins, 3 losses, 1 draw

 

Every other team was whitewashed with 0 wins and maybe 1 or 2 draws in entire 10 years

 

We achieved this with fast bowling attack of bowlers averaging 30+

 

Imagine if we had 1 or 2 bowlers averaging 25, 26, like now (bumrah averages 22), we would be winning overseas series for sure

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by New guy

[rollingstoned]

the kind of bowlers who can do that don't grow on trees though. the template until the 2019 wc worked well barring maybe one or 2 contingencies in an important game. We are not so top heavy now but Kohli's latest fascination is in opening in t20s but knowing him we will have to wait and  see when he bores of that too. 

 

In red ball cricket we just have an underperforming MO, it is no rocket science really. Rahane is at risk of averaging under 40 the next match unless he crosses 20. 

[rkt.india]

51 minutes ago, New guy said:

The value of batting is in drawing tests, which is why, till the time they went off form, we never faced humiliating white washes in test series, loses were also close ones

 

I think this is best emphasized by our record in Aus under big 4. From 2001 to 2010, Australia were at their peak, they had ATG batsmen and bowlers and their record at home was like current indias home record. they trampled every team

 

Take a look at the Aussie record at home (in australia)

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/2.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+2010;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

Against India 8 matches, 3 wins, 2 losses, 3 draws

 

Only india, south africa and england have any wins against them at all. 

 

against South Africa, 9 matches - 6 wins, 2 loss, 1 draw

 

Against England 14 matches 10 wins, 3 losses, 1 draw

 

Every other team was whitewashed with 0 wins and maybe 1 or 2 draws in entire 10 years

 

We achieved this with fast bowling attack of bowlers averaging 30+

 

Imagine if we had 1 or 2 bowlers averaging 25, 26, like now (bumrah averages 22), we would be winning overseas series for sure

 

2000s was the era of flattest pitches. They didn't face ATG Aussie attack as well. No McGrath or Warne in 2000s.

[New guy]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

2000s was the era of flattest pitches. They didn't face ATG Aussie attack as well. No McGrath or Warne in 2000s.

Lmao bringing warne when he was pwned by all indian batsmen at that time. We might have won the series if warne had played 

 

Also guys like lee and clarke and johnson were at peak and deadly at home, as can been seen in their performancr against pther countries at home at that time. 

[Redk84]

It just needs 2 or 3 players to come in and revitalise this team.

We all know the names out there for players, which ones look like they need dropping...leadership in general needs to be re-thought and Kohli needs to get his batting back on track. If that means letting go of some responsibility maybe that will be something that he can accept regardless of what anyone else feels because he'll be there as long as he wants from how it looks

 

Couple players coming in hitting the ground running is a contagious thing and suddenly form is better....then the experience can carry the team forward

[rkt.india]

51 minutes ago, New guy said:

Lmao bringing warne when he was pwned by all indian batsmen at that time. We might have won the series if warne had played 

 

Also guys like lee and clarke and johnson were at peak and deadly at home, as can been seen in their performancr against pther countries at home at that time. 

They didn't beat Warne in Australia. Yes, 2008, their bowling attack was good but pitches were still quite flat. 

[Sandeep99]

India doesn't have bowlers who take wickets in LOIs. We were heavily dependent on the top 3 and and even they have regressed now. Can you think of a single good middle order batsmen between 2015-now? We never groomed middle order batsmen properly in domestics or internationals. Rahane, Pujara, Iyer, Rahul, Shaw, etc are all top 3 batsmen in domestic who went to play middle order roles. The only genuine middle order batsmen was Rohit who went on to become an opener. 

 

We need to prepare some spicy pitches in domestic where top orders are grazed out early. That is when you will see teams playing their good batsmen in the middle order who can be ready to pay for India as well.

[New guy]

29 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

I prefer this team,we are becoming more of an all-round team now thanks to the pacers,if only we had a Sachin and a dravid in this team.

 

Yep. One intereting stat is that batting first, we have never lost a test where we scored 300 or more since 2015. Batting second, we have only lost 1 match since 2017 where we scored 300 in first innings (this was the england test at home where england scored 578)

 

So basically we just need batsmen to score 300 in first innings to not lose any match ever. As our bowlers are that good

 

The fact that this is not highlighted and our bowlers are blamed is so sad. 300 is bare mimimum in a test first innings, we dont even need to score 400 or 500

Edited September 1, 2021 by New guy

[New guy]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

They didn't beat Warne in Australia. Yes, 2008, their bowling attack was good but pitches were still quite flat. 

Yes as we need bowlers to win matches. Being a fast bowling supporter you should know that. Not a single bowler then averaged below 30, today we have bowlers averaging 22

[kubrickian]

Good fast bowlers, helpful conditions especially swing - any top order will struggle. This is not specific to India alone. Have you seen Warner, and the rest of Aussie boys when the ball swings ?

[Adamant]

19 hours ago, Jay said:

Yea. 

 

Middle order for future has to be

 

Rahul 

Gill

Pant

 

Looks so much better. 

 

Top 3 has to be for future?

 

Amolpreet Singh (remember this name guys)

Rohit/vihari/bhui/eeshwaran

Mayank

 

 

Clueless as usual 

Yaar ye banda..... 

[diehardpacer]

The game is lost in toss & team selection most of the times .Our batsman can't play Swing .As long as they don't deviate from bowling basics, they do well .

 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by diehardpacer

[Vijy]

On 9/1/2021 at 1:26 PM, kubrickian said:

Good fast bowlers, helpful conditions especially swing - any top order will struggle. This is not specific to India alone. Have you seen Warner, and the rest of Aussie boys when the ball swings ?

that is true perhaps. but quite a few players have good records in eng as well. smith, younis khan, misbah, random WI batsmen (hope), etc. all had their moments.