Why are our batsmen not remotely assured against leg spinners?

[vvvslaxman]

The decisive footwork is the key to dominate leggies.. Also the meeting point has to be delayed according to the speed of the ball. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

If you look at Sehwag's game against spinners even on tough wickets, low bounce wickets he quickly picks up the speed and length and delays if needed. A reason why he dominated the likes of Murali, Warne, Herath , Saqlain like nobody's business. Remember the minefield at Bangalore test where Sachin was groping against viciously turning ball even from Afridi. Sehwag was at complete ease until he was run out by Gambhir.   I remember KL Rahul played so well in one of the test on a tough wicket.  Pujara did in one of the test. But overall we have regressed. Kohli is the leader of the pack. Being a bunny of all the leggies in the world.

[Adi_91]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

If you look at Sehwag's game against spinners even on tough wickets, low bounce wickets he quickly picks up the speed and length and delays if needed. A reason why he dominated the likes of Murali, Warne, Herath , Saqlain like nobody's business. Remember the minefield at Bangalore test where Sachin was groping against viciously turning ball even from Afridi. Sehwag was at complete ease until he was run out by Gambhir.   I remember KL Rahul played so well in one of the test on a tough wicket.  Pujara did in one of the test. But overall we have regressed. Kohli is the leader of the pack. Being a bunny of all the leggies in the world.

 

KL's innings is in the Bangalore test of 2017 in the Border Gavaskar Trophy. That was a very difficult pitch to bat on. Even Rahane in that test batted well in the crucial 2nd innings.

[gattaca]

India struggles against any kind of spin now. Off spin and deadly left arm spin. We lost to swamn and Panesar. Lost of that guy from Australia left spin as well. Lost to England’s left arm spinner as well. The problem is earlier batsman used to play forward or backward based on length. Sehwag, Laxman even Azhar were gems in this. Now our batsman (main culprit kohli) just reach for the ball and try to drive through covers rather judging the length. Big problem is playing in Ranji trophy. Laxman , Dravid used to play Ranjis a lot earlier in their careers. Now it’s mostly IPL and then internationals. Spin is all about practice to learn and judge the ball.

Edited November 12, 2021 by gattaca

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

The decisive footwork is the key to dominate leggies.. Also the meeting point has to be delayed according to the speed of the ball. 

 

 

Why are you posting Shane warn's bowling. He used to bowl in 70s. Batsmen had enough time to move. Today's spinners bowl 85-100 kph range. Rashid bowls 90-100 kph. 

[sensible-indian]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Why are you posting Shane warn's bowling. He used to bowl in 70s. Batsmen had enough time to move. Today's spinners bowl 85-100 kph range. Rashid bowls 90-100 kph. 

Warne used to impart a lot of revs so it would dip and pop after pitching.

 

Swann didn't bowl in 90s...did he?

 

Wasn't it 80s?

 

Herath doesn't bowl in 90s.

 

We struggled them all while Sehwag smashed them.

 

It would be interesting to watch how spinners like Axar and Jaddu performed against yesteryear bats.

[Lone Wolf]

26 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Why are you posting Shane warn's bowling. He used to bowl in 70s. Batsmen had enough time to move. Today's spinners bowl 85-100 kph range. Rashid bowls 90-100 kph. 

Problem is grave in test match cricket.  Leach was bowling 80-82 kph & our batters had no clue.  Moeen Ali as well...  Although his revs are impressive.  

Warne still leads the pack...  With the amount of revs he used to have on balls..  Unreal magician. 

Rashid Khan got carted around in test cricket in India.  Left handers dispatched him...  Dhawan especially. 

[rkt.india]

35 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Problem is grave in test match cricket.  Leach was bowling 80-82 kph & our batters had no clue.  Moeen Ali as well...  Although his revs are impressive.  

Warne still leads the pack...  With the amount of revs he used to have on balls..  Unreal magician. 

Rashid Khan got carted around in test cricket in India.  Left handers dispatched him...  Dhawan especially. 

Most will struggle on minefield pitches. I thought this thread was about T20 cricket.

[rkt.india]

54 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Warne used to impart a lot of revs so it would dip and pop after pitching.

 

Swann didn't bowl in 90s...did he?

 

Wasn't it 80s?

 

Herath doesn't bowl in 90s.

 

We struggled them all while Sehwag smashed them.

 

It would be interesting to watch how spinners like Axar and Jaddu performed against yesteryear bats.

You can't talk about Sehwag and generalize. Sehwag was an exception. Exceptions aren't norms.

[vvvslaxman]

 

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Why are you posting Shane warn's bowling. He used to bowl in 70s. Batsmen had enough time to move. Today's spinners bowl 85-100 kph range. Rashid bowls 90-100 kph. 

 

SHahid Afridi was touching 120 kph if i am right. Tendulkar was all at sea on a square turner.  Sehwag was not.  Rashid doesn't exactly bowl at 100 kph. So is Ish sodhi. If anything having more time doesn't mean you will play easily. We did struggle against Mendis. Sehwag did not.

[putrevus]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

The decisive footwork is the key to dominate leggies.. Also the meeting point has to be delayed according to the speed of the ball. 

 

 

You are talking about best player of spin bowling in history of cricket. Sehwag has no peers when it comes to playing spin bowling.Mere mortals cannot be Sehwag.It seems like you don't have any understanding of talent which Sehwag had when it comes to playing spin bowling.Expecting someone to play like Sehwag is ridiculous.

Edited November 12, 2021 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

40 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are talking about best player of spin bowling in history of cricket. Sehwag has no peers when it comes to playing spin bowling.Mere mortals cannot be Sehwag.It seems like you don't have any understanding of talent which Sehwag had when it comes to playing spin bowling.Expecting someone to play like Sehwag is ridiculous.

 

Azharudin,  Ganguly, Tendulkar they were no slouches either.  This complete insecurity against any type of leg spin on any pitch is alarming. Groping the ball instead of using the feet has become more common.  Sodhi has repeatedly troubled us. 

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Azharudin,  Ganguly, Tendulkar they were no slouches either.  This complete insecurity against any type of leg spin on any pitch is alarming. Groping the ball instead of using the feet has become more common.  Sodhi has repeatedly troubled us. 

Nobody you mentioned comes close to genius of Sehwag against spinners.The current crop is awful against any spinners forget legspinners.Kohli is so limited against spin bowling.You have to be very decisive with footwork and also be able to play against the turn.

 

Sehwag had ability to hit against the turn against any spin bowler.Murali said it best one batsman he feared was Sehwag. So better not compare mere mortals with genius like Sehwag,

[coffee_rules]

How easy it is read off of the hand? A lot of players claim that. It is a difficult task to pick googlies or arm-balls from the hand. Unless you play at the pitch of the ball, it is difficult to read from the pitch as well.  Dravid was Warne's bunny. btw

Edited November 12, 2021 by coffee_rules

[putrevus]

Most Indian batsmen till this generation had ability to read spinners off the hand for one and only one reason.Most of them played domestic cricket and faced all kinds of spinners,It is disgrace that guys like Pandya are opting to sit out from domestic cricket and play only IPl and for India.If he could not bowl, he could atleast play as a batsman and improve his batting.Where there is a will there is way.

 

No wonder guy like Mayank Aggrawal looked best against spinners in Australia in 2018.

[New guy]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

SHahid Afridi was touching 120 kph if i am right. Tendulkar was all at sea on a square turner.  Sehwag was not.  Rashid doesn't exactly bowl at 100 kph. So is Ish sodhi. If anything having more time doesn't mean you will play easily. We did struggle against Mendis. Sehwag did not.

At his peak sachin never struggled on square turners or against afridi. The world cup 96 was prime example where on a minefiled everyone struggled even to put bat to ball,  but sachin was fluent. 

[Sean Bradley]

BCCI and the entire Indian Cricket got entangled so much into "Indians cannot Play pace and bounce", that we started making green tops and hard wickets for our domestic matches. In the due course, we now produce players who will do brillant on SENA pitches but struggle against spinners. The last Brilliant player of Spin from India was Gautam Gambhir, Half Decent Player of spin? Shikhar Dhawan. Ofcourse I will not even name SRT, Sehwag, Dada etc who were legendary against spin play. So bottomline, we have changed our culture and DNA to be better equipped and competitive in SENA, at the same time we compromised on our Forte, i.e. playing spin.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sean Bradley

[putrevus]

Ganguly was never a great player of leg spin bowling.He was deadly against left arm spinners, was he better than current crop sure but calling him a great player of spin bowling is wrong.Samething does with Dravid.Dravid had lot of issues against leg spinners.

 

Laxman was very good against spinners.

Edited November 12, 2021 by putrevus

[neel roy]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Azharudin,  Ganguly, Tendulkar they were no slouches either.  This complete insecurity against any type of leg spin on any pitch is alarming. Groping the ball instead of using the feet has become more common.  Sodhi has repeatedly troubled us. 

The trick is picking up length early and playing late. Dont want to  jinx but the only batsman i have watched in indian context who plays spin well and late is ruturaj gaikwad. He should definitely be fast tracked to test team. Definitely better than rahane.