Is the current Aussie pace attack in tests better than ours ? Do we have an X-factor in our test team compared to the Aussies ?

[Adamant]

2 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

Need to say it the umpteenth time. We lost the WTC final for batting, and just because of batting. Draw was written all over it if not for everyone throwing away their wickets.

 

We never lost defending a 180+ target for years. That day, they had just 141. In NZ, they had 132 and 9 to defend in two games.

Bhai as a bowling unit they definitely weren't responsible, but imagine Bumrah also taking wickets like he usually does, we would have won that match. 

[Chakdephatte]

23 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Bhai as a bowling unit they definitely weren't responsible, but imagine Bumrah also taking wickets like he usually does, we would have won that match. 

I do understand your point but that does not prove Australia is better. Indian bowling unit clicked in most overseas matches. Siraj, Shami, and Bumrah did way better in Australia than Starc, Cumins, Hazelwood did in India.

 

About that game, 249 was not a bad total that we gave in the first innings. We might have won if we were defending a half decent total like 200 even without Bumrah performing, but batting collapsed like pack of cards.

 

PS: We didn't let anyone chase a big total against us. We won whenever we bowled last except these three occasions.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Chakdephatte

[nevada]

No, it isn't. They failed to cross the finish line in back to back tests against us.

[express bowling]

I am really surprised at this comparison  !

 

Really, really surprised  !!

 

The Indian Fast bowling group have been consistently winning us test matches and test series away from home in the last 3 years starting late 2018.

 

Australia 2018-19 ----   2 - 0

West Indies 2019 ---- 2 - 0

New Zealand ---- 0 - 2

Australia 2020-21 ---- 2 - 1

WTC Final ---- 0 - 1

England 2021 ---- 2 - 1

South Africa 2021-22 ---- 1 - 0 ahead 

 

 

The Australian Fast bowling group

...  Have lost TWO test series at home against India on pace friendly tracks.

...  Drew in the last away Ashes series in England.

...  Lost 1 - 3 on their last away tour to SA.

...  Lost the Dharamsala test in 2017 in India on a fast and bouncy track. 

 

If the Aussie pacers cannot win them big tests and big test series away and even at home, how are they even good !!

 

The Indian Fast bowling group is far superior as they are winning us test matches all around the world despite us having a non-existent 3 to 5 in the batting order in the last 2 years.

Edited December 31, 2021 by express bowling

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Umesh of 2017-19 is a beast....  Probably the greatest Asia specialist bowler ever seen on planet.   He has been inconsistent overseas but he never gets to play that much as well.   He has done decently recently in overseas with ability bowl jaffas outta nowhere..  Root in Oval for example.. 

Only blemish for him recently is NZ tour & Christchurch game in 2020..  That's when he failed badly. 

 

Would still say our 3rd seamer is better than theirs. Backups on par or better. Jhye has potential but that's all it is so far. We haven't tested guys like saini prasidh tyagi yet and they are all quality. Saini came back strong in s.a A tour. He deserves another chance. Batting is definitely in favour of them and fielding.

 

Although you bring up an interesting point. Both teams dropped a lot of catches in that series. We would have won second test regardless. Aussies may not have bowled us out for 36 had we taken our catches in the first test. 

 

3rd test both teams dropped heaps. We dropped labu and Smith was reprieved etc. But we got a bit lucky in the third test. Pant was dropped etc. 

 

Gabba was a fair win but I am quite sure we dropped several there. So did Paine off pant but it was hard chances as pant really hit those balls hard when he flashed at it. 

 

2-2 would have been the result had both teams taken their chances at the right time. But that's 2 - 2 vs a weaker Indian bowling side. Put shami alongside siraj booms and thakur then we probably would have won test 4 convincingly. 

[express bowling]

Backup Test match pacers ----

 

India ----

 

Umesh

Ishant 

Saini

Prasidh

Avesh

 

 

 

Australia ----

 

J.Richardson

Boland

Neser

Steketee 

 

 

I would say we have far greater depth in backup pacers too.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by express bowling

[R!TTER]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

Aussies may not have bowled us out for 36 had we taken our catches in the first test. 

We'd have taken a big lead if BRat wasn't run out & we took all our catches, but of course 36/9 - that is what makes it a legend, I'll also remind everyone we weren't bowled out 

[neel roy]

9 hours ago, Texan said:

 

Primary reasons why Australian teams struggle in Asian conditions is not due to the pace attack. It is the spinners that make all the difference. Australia only have one decent spinner who is actually pretty average in Asian conditions. Hence, the pace bowlers end up doing the bulk of the work. The difference with India is that because we have quality spinners that can explooit the conditions, pace bowlers just have to perform in small bursts. Our pace bowlers indeed are terrific in Indian conditions, but majority of the work is done by the spinners. 

 

P.S.

Since this question is an opinionated one, there will be counter opinions and everyone is entitled to theirs. I respect your opinion as much as I hope you respect mine. I tend to keep my opinions objective and not swayed by patriotic emotions. 

See that is the reason why we are better. We dont need conditions or pitches or help from spinners. We can beat aus eng saf in their home nations based on our pace firepower with spinners  not making impact. And we can beat the same teams at home with spin pace combined. So who would you choose as a neutral .. a pack of 4 who can win irrespective of conditions any part of earth or a pack of 4 who are lions but only at home. The aussies got smashed in south africal last time with same pacers.. as well as in england they lost 2 tests..!

Edited December 31, 2021 by neel roy

[neel roy]

2 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

We'd have taken a big lead if BRat wasn't run out & we took all our catches, but of course 36/9 - that is what makes it a legend, I'll also remind everyone we weren't bowled out 

Also if pant played. In one innings he would have fired. He scored a 85 ball century 3 days ago in the practice match

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, HamHindustani said:

Our attack can match the Aussies in SENA. Our attack is better than Aussies in the subcontinent.

 

Indian attack is better in Aus, Eng and SA.

[Jay]

41 minutes ago, neel roy said:

Also if pant played. In one innings he would have fired. He scored a 85 ball century 3 days ago in the practice match

That's true. No pant Gill or rohit or jadeja. Holy shot. C team haha.

[Jay]

Ho does australia destroy Kiwis so easily though? That's something we need to work on. We need to destroy Kiwis in their home. We can but we fail for some reason. 

 

How the phuck does Warner average so high vs Kiwis lmao in those conditions. 

 

Do we just travel at a time where conditions are just more conducive to swing? Makes no sense. 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Ho does australia destroy Kiwis so easily though? That's something we need to work on. We need to destroy Kiwis in their home. We can but we fail for some reason. 

 

How the phuck does Warner average so high vs Kiwis lmao in those conditions. 

 

Do we just travel at a time where conditions are just more conducive to swing? Makes no sense. 

 

 

They prepare flat decks vs Australia so that  NZ can survive... Now they haven't hosted them since 2016..  Adam Voges became bradman in that series.  Even a B Mac special couldn't save them lol.  They don't have the balls to give green seaming decks to Saffers & Aussies...  

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, Lone Wolf said:

They don't have the balls to give green seaming decks to Saffers

Maybe to current day SA, they're basically almost WI level & will go lower once Elgar retires!

[Lone Wolf]

4 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Maybe to current day SA, they're basically almost WI level & will go lower once Elgar retires!

They have the talent politics aside there are lot of young batsman waiting for their chances.  Bowling is still quite good I reckon.  SA can push NZ this time around I think.  I expect a thrilling series..  Green mambas might be lottery cricket there if SA wins tosses.  I think NZ will be better suited to give them normal tracks & look to outbat them. 

[Jay]

44 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

They prepare flat decks vs Australia so that  NZ can survive... Now they haven't hosted them since 2016..  Adam Voges became bradman in that series.  Even a B Mac special couldn't save them lol.  They don't have the balls to give green seaming decks to Saffers & Aussies...  

lol but thats so stupid. their best chance to beat aussies is on seamers hahaha. hazlewood would be dangerous on those tracks. Our bowling isnt the issue in n.z 

did you know, saffers have never lost a series to n.z ever. like home and away. 

 

its the woeful batting and the bloody toss. i believe aussies won all tosses last time they toured n.z 

n.z, s.africa and even australia, toss does matter. 

in australia generally you win toss, bat first. same as s.africa. n.z is the opposite. bowl first. 

[R!TTER]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

did you know, saffers have never lost a series to n.z ever. like home and away. 

 

That's not much of a record, SA since readmission has played the least tests against NZ, among major test nations. That's not to downplay the achievement but it's like saying India haven't lost a test to SL, at home, in 40(?) years of their test history or India haven't lost a test to WI since 2002. Without context it's hardly relevant & in today's situation those numbers really don't matter.

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Ho does australia destroy Kiwis so easily though? That's something we need to work on. We need to destroy Kiwis in their home. We can but we fail for some reason. 

 

How the phuck does Warner average so high vs Kiwis lmao in those conditions. 

 

Do we just travel at a time where conditions are just more conducive to swing? Makes no sense. 

 

 

NZ usually gives most teams apart from us flat pitches. even shakib has made merry there, if I remember correctly

[R!TTER]

True to a large extent, you think India pitches are bad, how about 2002/03 tour where 8 out of 9 games on the tour had Kiwi lawns instead of pitches on display 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

True to a large extent, you think India pitches are bad, how about 2002/03 tour where 8 out of 9 games on the tour had Kiwi lawns instead of pitches on display 

We didn't tour them for 7 years as retribution or something lol...  In 2009 they gave us normal decks & we ended up winning.