Ashwin and Thakur: Hit or Flop (Ind in SA 2022)

[zen]

With the last inning to be played out, would you consider Ashwin and Thakur to be hits or flops in the test series. Or it needs the 3rd test to complete to decide. 

 

Ist Test 

Ashwin 4R, 0W; 14R, 2W

Thakur 4R, 2W; 10R, 0W 

 

2nd Test 

Ashwin 46R, 0W; 16R, 1W

Thakur 0R, 7W; 28R, 1W

 

3rd Test so far

Ashwin 2R, 0W

Thakur 12R, 1W

 

 

It is like 2 players are combining to even come close to performing like 1

Edited January 12, 2022 by zen

[Adamant]

Thakur has picked up 10 wickets in 5 innings at an average of 18. 

His performance has been absolutely terrific. 

 

Ashwin OTOH has been totally ineffective and that's also the reason why he wasn't picked in England but some conspiracy theorists (who are always wrong) thought that he wasn't getting picked because of jealousy. 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, zen said:

 

It is like 2 players are combining to even come close to performing like 1

You are saying this about a guy who is Averaging 18 with the ball and has picked up the most wickets for India. 

 

Just for context - 

Hardik Pandya in SA. 

bowling average 54

Batting average 19.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Adamant

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Adamant said:

You are saying this about a guy who is Averaging 18 with the ball and has picked up the most wickets for India. 

His avg (and wkts tally) is influenced by 1 spell which unfortunately did not help Ind win 

Edited January 12, 2022 by zen

[Adamant]

Just now, zen said:

His avg is influenced by 1 spell which unfortunately did not help Ind win 

He bowled well in the first innings of the first test, same goes for that 7fer match and if you were watching today then he was bowling absolutely brilliant spells. 

 

Come on man. That wasn't a one off performance, he is consistently doing well.

 

[sandeep]

He's doing so well as a 4th pacer.  Zen has started with an assumption and now he will merrily and subjectively slice numbers that somehow to his twisted mind, 'prove' his point.  Its an old ride, no interest in going along for it.

[zen]

27 minutes ago, sandeep said:

He's doing so well as a 4th pacer.  Zen has started with an assumption and now he will merrily and subjectively slice numbers that somehow to his twisted mind, 'prove' his point.  Its an old ride, no interest in going along for it.

India is probably scheduled to tour SENA in 2024 (1 pending test in Eng in 2022) therefore unless Thakur remains fit and sharp (with batting improved), this could probably his last full test tour to SENA  

 

There is no point in wasting time on slicing numbers on Thakur as it is how he would shape up in 2024 and how other bowlers are doing relatively at that time that will drive the discussion 

 

 

PS Similarly, a possible end for Ashwin as well on a full test tour to SENA

Edited January 12, 2022 by zen

[zen]

5 hours ago, Adamant said:

st for context - 

Hardik Pandya in SA. 

bowling average 54

Batting average 19.

I see that you added the above to your post. First, I have not said that SDP rocked in SA (could have got a 100 though). Second, SDP was playing as a youngster, learning on the go. Third, that was his first SENA tour (he has not played in suitable conditions, more batting inclined, like in Aus).  And that SA team had ABDV playing. Anyways, this would be off topic. 
 

Thakur is already 30 years old (not a youngster), playing first class cricket since 2013 iirc. Has already played in Aus and Eng. In SA, as a bowler, he is battling against a relatively inexperienced batting line up. We have to talk about him as a more experienced cricketer. Similarly for Ashwin.

Edited January 12, 2022 by zen

[Jay]

1 hour ago, zen said:

I see that you added the above to your post. First, I have not said that SDP rocked in SA (could have got a 100 though). Second, SDP was playing as a youngster, learning on the go. Third, that was his first SENA tour (he has not played in suitable conditions, more batting inclined, like in Aus).  And that SA team had ABDV playing. Anyways, this would be off topic. 
 

Thakur is already 30 years old (not a youngster), playing first class cricket since 2013 iirc. Has already played in Aus and Eng. In SA, as a bowler, he is battling against a relatively inexperienced batting line up. We have to talk about him as a more experienced cricketer. Similarly for Ashwin.

This saffer team has better bowlers. Keegan is a find of the series. 

 

Thakur does a decent job for his position. He is serviceable. 

 

You also have to remember we are missing siraj. Siraj was bowling with venom until he pulled a hammy. That affected our stamina and drained our bowlers.

[zen]

18 minutes ago, Jay said:

This saffer team has better bowlers. Keegan is a find of the series. 

 

Thakur does a decent job for his position. He is serviceable. 

 

You also have to remember we are missing siraj. Siraj was bowling with venom until he pulled a hammy. That affected our stamina and drained our bowlers.

 

The thread is discussing the whole series, not one inning or test ... Moreover if a bowler pulls out, it provides opportunity for other bowlers (Thakur picked up 7 wkts by bowling more overs for e.g. against an inexperienced batting line up) and Ind goes with 5 bowlers so can cover for a bowler short 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by zen

[Jay]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

 

The thread is discussing the whole series, not one inning or test ... Moreover if a bowler pulls out, it provides opportunity for other bowlers (Thakur picked up 7 wkts by bowling more overs for e.g. against an inexperienced batting line up) and Ind goes with 5 bowlers so can cover for a bowler short 

 

 

It's not that simple when our abysmal batting puts too much pressure on our bowlers. They never get to par score. Bowlers get rest. Plus one man down. 

 

You need 5 bowlers in these conditions. Sure we have a top quality attack, but they are still humans. They need to rest and recover. Our batting only lasted 50 60 overs. Piles on pressure on bowlers to carry them again. Besides pitch got easier in last test after every innings. 

 

As for thakur he did his job tbh. 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's not that simple when our abysmal batting puts too much pressure on our bowlers. They never get to par score. Bowlers get rest. Plus one man down. 

 

You need 5 bowlers in these conditions. Sure we have a top quality attack, but they are still humans. They need to rest and recover. Our batting only lasted 50 60 overs. Piles on pressure on bowlers to carry them again. Besides pitch got easier in last test after every innings. 

 

As for thakur he did his job tbh. 

 

Similar circumstances for SA 

[Jay]

58 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Similar circumstances for SA 

They dint have one man down. 

[zen]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

They dint have one man down. 

Already mentioned that enabled Thakur to bowl more overs … Ind has an experienced bowling line up including Thakur who is 30 … And SA have been playing similar number of overs to Ind

 

[asterix]

Ashwin has been a flop in both bowling and batting. Too much attitude without any substance.

[zen]

Let's hope that these two at least manage to pick up a wkt or two between the two

[maniac]

Thakur- average 

Ashwin- Flop

[ThirtyD.]

3 hours ago, asterix said:

Ashwin has been a flop in both bowling and batting. Too much attitude without any substance.

 

That comes with the seniority tag.

[Number]

Thakur has been very good.

Batting here has been very very difficult else could have contributed more with the bat. Got out to good balls mostly never threw his wicket.

[ash]

Thakur has finally closed Hardik Pandya chapter in test cricket. The fake All rounder was with the team for 3 years but the lord has achieved more than him in 3 months.

 

Ashwin’s batting was a flop, bowling was good. Never got a chance to bowl a long spell. Jadeja has pressed ahead of him now in SENA