Sachin vs Kohli after 99 Tests

[sage]

 

Meanwhile, sachin vs smith at 148 innings

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

 

Meanwhile, sachin vs smith at 148 innings

I remember this time in sacchu's career. it was around 2002 I think. Although Stewie is likely to have his own decline, I don't think he will play on until his avg drops below 54 as did SRT.

[sage]

29 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I remember this time in sacchu's career. it was around 2002 I think. Although Stewie is likely to have his own decline, I don't think he will play on until his avg drops below 54 as did SRT.

Yes, this was in 2002 where he scored his 29th century equalling bradman vs Windies in Port of Spain

Edited March 8, 2022 by sage

[Jay]

Tendulkar only cared about atats. What an arsehole. Could have won so much for india. 

 

 

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Tendulkar only cared about atats. What an arsehole. Could have won so much for india. 

 

 

My own reading is that he was ingrained in Bombay school of batsmanship and was also not mentally that strong. He was rather fragile in pressure situations, kind of like Sundar's glass body. Of course, mental toughness is rare to come by in Indian cricketers - that's why we celebrate the exceptions like Gambhir.

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

My own reading is that he was ingrained in Bombay school of batsmanship and was also not mentally that strong. He was rather fragile in pressure situations, kind of like Sundar's glass body. Of course, mental toughness is rare to come by in Indian cricketers - that's why we celebrate the exceptions like Gambhir.

Sundar Is the opposite. He is so clutch. But physically fragile. God I hope he gets stronger. It would be a blasphemy to see a talent of sundars calibre not attain greatness. 

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Sundar Is the opposite. He is so clutch. But physically fragile. God I hope he gets stronger. It would be a blasphemy to see a talent of sundars calibre not attain greatness. 

right now, he is going the route of archie jackson and not bradman because of not realizing his talent (i.e., remaining unfulfilled)

 

P.S. I am not saying he will become bradman, just comparing two players of similar talent with very different trajectories. similarly, I am not saying his health or cricket career are in danger (which jackson faced).

Edited March 8, 2022 by Vijy

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

My own reading is that he was ingrained in Bombay school of batsmanship and was also not mentally that strong. He was rather fragile in pressure situations, kind of like Sundar's glass body. Of course, mental toughness is rare to come by in Indian cricketers - that's why we celebrate the exceptions like Gambhir.

 

Tendulkar was actually quiet good mentaly when he started his career. His saving of Test in England as a 17 year old was special. Also took blows on his first tour and didn't back away. Consistently did well against Pakistan in world cups. Even on the minefield of a pitch in world cup semi final he was the only one scored freely.  Then Desert storm.  THen in chennai Test he played an outstanding innings until he developed severe back pain. In an eagerness to finish teh game fast went for too many shots and got out.  During the 90s his batsmsaship was too good to be affected  by pressure.  But in 2000s he hit a rough spot and decided to be over cautious in some Tests and succumbed. 

[rkt.india]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:31 AM, sage said:

The bulk of Sachins stats here are from the 90s where only a handful of players averaged above 50 and Tendulkar was well ahead of the pack

How many players averaged 50s in 2010s? I think less than even 90s. Batsmen who primarily played in 2010s.

[rkt.india]

On 3/4/2022 at 6:42 PM, Rantzz said:

Let’s not forget Sachin had protection of other all time great batsmen in sehwag, Dravid (who I rate higher in tests), laxman etc so he could take shelter in non striker end when the dangerous bowlers were on (which he did often) and then could feast on lesser bowlers

 

kohli had no such benefit with rotating openers, useless Count Dracula and hahane 

 

also Sachin had benefit of playing likes of Zimbabwe , NZ when they were poor etc

In the 90s, England, Srilanka too weren't any good as bowling sides. West Indian bowling was challenging.

[rkt.india]

On 3/4/2022 at 3:22 PM, Austin 3:!6 said:

Dont recall Sachin ever faced test bowling attack as poor as the one today from Srilanka.

 

If Virat cant score century against these bowlers, chances are slim that he would ever score another one.

Srilankan 90s attack was as poor. Same with England's in 90s.

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

How many players averaged 50s in 2010s? I think less than even 90s. Batsmen who primarily played in 2010s.

If we take a reasonably high no. of runs as cutoff (2000 runs), 1990s had only 4 players who avg > 50. Of them, two began their careers in mid-80s or earlier and were therefore quite well established. only 2 (lara and SRT) who debuted close to 1990, and were new to the scene.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax2=31+dec+1999;spanmin2=01+jan+1990;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

In the 2010s, there were 11 of them in total. and quite a few of them played majority of their career tests in the 2010s such as ABdV, Brat, Smith, Misbah, williamson, etc. pujara and amla also had test avgs close to 50 in this period

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+dec+2019;spanmin1=01+jan+2010;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Edited March 9, 2022 by Vijy

[Texan]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:55 PM, Majestic said:

Top 10 in tests:-

 

Tendulkar/ Gavaskar

Gavaskar/ Tendulkar

Dravid

Kohli

Merchant

Hazare

Laxman

Sehwag

Vishwanath

 

Kohli is overrated in this order and Sehwag is WAY underrated. Sehwag played some of the most impactful innings of all during his time. In my opinion Sehwag would rank at par with Sachin in terms of impact, even though records, technique and statistically Sachin looks superior. 

 

Kohli would rank only above Gundappa Viswanath in this list for me. Hazare and Merchant played at a time when India virtually had no cricket infrastructure or coaching. So their achievements are incredible for that time. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Texan
Typo fix

[rkt.india]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:12 AM, Majestic said:

Spin bowling quality is at lowest in this era. There is simply no world class spinner in the world except Lyon. This is what makes batting in India far more easier for Indian batsman of this era compared to previous ones who played against spinners of quality of Warne, Murali, Saqlain, Swann, Panesar, Macgill and Vettori and also Mendis ( for a small period).

 

Fast bowling quality in 90s was also better than the current era although current era had better fast bowling quality than in 2000s where Ponting, Kallis and Dravid cashed on the most.

WI had great fast bowling in the 90s. SA too Two very good fast bowlers in Donald and Pollock. Australia for most of the 90s didn't have any great fast bowler except McGrath. They had likes of Paul Reiffel. Their current pace attack is better. Pakistan good pace attack but we hardly played much against them in the 90s. Rest all were average. Murli before doosra was not the same bowler. Sidhu used to hit him for sixes for fun. 

[rkt.india]

21 minutes ago, Vijy said:

If we take a reasonably high no. of runs as cutoff (2000 runs), 1990s had only 4 players who avg > 50. Of them, two began their careers in mid-80s or earlier and were therefore quite well established. only 2 (lara and SRT) who debuted close to 1990, and were new to the scene.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax2=31+dec+1999;spanmin2=01+jan+1990;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting

In the 2010s, there were 11 of them in total. and quite a few of them played majority of their career tests in the 2010s such as ABdV, Brat, Smith, Misbah, williamson, etc. pujara and amla also had test avgs close to 50 in this period

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+dec+2019;spanmin1=01+jan+2010;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

I would say Kohli, Smith, ABDV, Misbah, Williamson played majority of their tests in 2010s. Likes of Sanga, Chanderpaul were already established test batsmen. It also shows batting quality of 90s was really poor.

[Vijy]

32 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I would say Kohli, Smith, ABDV, Misbah, Williamson played majority of their tests in 2010s. Likes of Sanga, Chanderpaul were already established test batsmen. It also shows batting quality of 90s was really poor.

no, the evidence doesn't prove that. it either shows what you wrote and/or that bowling quality/pitches was higher in 1990s than in 2000s and 2010s. one cannot use batting avg in isolation to infer anything either way; otherwise, someone would think batting quality was very high in 1920s and not before/after this period.

[SRT100]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Tendulkar was actually quiet good mentaly when he started his career. His saving of Test in England as a 17 year old was special. Also took blows on his first tour and didn't back away. Consistently did well against Pakistan in world cups. Even on the minefield of a pitch in world cup semi final he was the only one scored freely.  Then Desert storm.  THen in chennai Test he played an outstanding innings until he developed severe back pain. In an eagerness to finish teh game fast went for too many shots and got out.  During the 90s his batsmsaship was too good to be affected  by pressure.  But in 2000s he hit a rough spot and decided to be over cautious in some Tests and succumbed. 

 

I do remember him struggling at times due to the pressure of carrying India's batting.

 

If he failed, India in almost all cases lost. There was a time that India had a terrible batting order when Tendulkar was playing. He had no support. He had to carry India's hopes and fortunes. Naturally teams spent all their time focusing on getting SRT out.

 

If you look at today, if India picked a batting order in Tests of Hitman, Mayank, Vihari, Pant, Iyer, Jaddu vs Sri Lanka on Friday, Im confident it doesnt matter who fails as there is a player capable of saving the batting.

[SRT100]

9 hours ago, Vijy said:

My own reading is that he was ingrained in Bombay school of batsmanship and was also not mentally that strong. He was rather fragile in pressure situations, kind of like Sundar's glass body. Of course, mental toughness is rare to come by in Indian cricketers - that's why we celebrate the exceptions like Gambhir.

 

I believe Dhoni had that mental toughness that I believe is very rare amongst Indians.

 

Ganguly and Yuvraj have shown glimpses of when put to the sword, as has Kohli when younger. Kohli when younger and angry, was dangerous, like scary dangerous, no score was out of his limit.

 

Overall though I do agree India lack mental toughness. Even the 2011 WC win, they made a meal out of chasing a less than par score.

 

The fact that India has consistently struggled in ICC tournaments is a testament to our ability to choke in major tournaments.

[Serpico]

Sachin got fat at the turn of the century and never slimmed down again. Given his short frame, this had a big impact on his game. Because of this and tennis elbow later on, his shots lost that extra punch he had in 90s

 

Tendulkar with Kohli like fitness would have been awesome

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

 

I believe Dhoni had that mental toughness that I believe is very rare amongst Indians.

 

Ganguly and Yuvraj have shown glimpses of when put to the sword, as has Kohli when younger. Kohli when younger and angry, was dangerous, like scary dangerous, no score was out of his limit.

 

Overall though I do agree India lack mental toughness. Even the 2011 WC win, they made a meal out of chasing a less than par score.

 

The fact that India has consistently struggled in ICC tournaments is a testament to our ability to choke in major tournaments.

Dev, Yuvi and Kumble were mentally strong too.