Jump to content

Will the emergence of Umran Malik wake up the other IPL franchises to scout and buy genuine Indian pace bowlers instead of trundlers?

SecondSlip

By SecondSlip
in IPL Forum

 Share

Recommended Posts

Sooda Rising Star

Sooda

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, zen said:

 

We need to understand that in the history of Indian cricket, we have not seen 10 high-quality fast bowlers (The King Trundler, Kapil, is still highly regarded).  There are 10 franchises, therefore it can be difficult for many to get even 1 high-quality fast bowler. 

 

Franchises pick bowlers to play certain roles in certain conditions. Mohit, Bhuvi, Harshal, etc., esp. if in form can bring certain value. Just because we are fascinated with what is fast (I am too as folks know I tend to support bowlers like Umran), it does not mean that these bowlers (esp. since India does not produce high-quality pace bowlers in abundance) should be automatically seen as average. We have seen a Mohit become a Man of the Match playing in a lineup where other pacers usually bowl in the 142-148 range; a Sandeep Sharma, surprisingly, bowls well at the death (executed yorkers well) for RR; etc. Many trundlers bring certain specific skills such as swing (Arshdeep, Bhuvi, D Chahar, etc.), yorkers (Harshal, Natrajan, Bhuvi, etc.), and change of pace (Harshal, who needs the ball to grip. At Banglore, the ball can skid on to the bat). On the other hand, Umran went for 28 runs over v KKR iirc (was given a relatively new ball in PP which is not necessarily his forte and the field placement could have been better).

 

Even among the overseas bowlers, we see only a handful of quality high-pace bowlers like Joseph, Wood, Ferguson (not bowling that well currently), and Nortje, along with the bowl short or full Odean Smith.  Rabada has lost pace. Most of the overseas pace bowlers are mostly medium to medium-fast bowlers such as Magala, Willey, Parnell, Begerendorf, Meredith,  Holder, Boult, Ellis, Curran, Mustafizur, Stoinis, Sams, Southee, Jansen, etc. 

 

Tyagi is in SRH. To get into the 11, he has to impress its team management. If Tyagi were bowling better than those picked, he would be getting his chances. He tends to get injured too. It is a long tournament where bowlers are rotated so if Tyagi gets his chance, he should try to grab the opportunity. 

 



Good points

The other thing to highlight is - IPL aside, The Indian team management has blooded and given opportunity to what they see as exciting fast bowling talent as soon as they could. They do not have some "fetish" for average trundlers at the expense of better quick bowlers.

Kartik Tyagi has only played two FC matches one was against AUstralia for an A team. Umran made the team fast tracked on the back if IPL, barely played any FC but still played for A team to give him experience. Prasidh, Sen, Dayal would all be playing if fit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

I agree that we don't have many high quality fast bowlers, but we had our share of fast medium (135k+) bowlers who were decent to quality.
Over the history after Kapil we had Srinath, Zaheer, Nehra, Agarkar, Ishant 2.0, Umesh (genuinly fast between 2010-2017), Bumrah, Shami and Siraj who are above average. But even they knew that bowling 135+ is a minimum requirement (Kapil was an exception because he was an allrounder, but even he must be 135k in his younger days).

Problem is in current IPL, we have many bowlers who are bowling under 135k (Sakariya, Avesh, Sandeep, Bhuvi, Arjun, Yash Thakur, Unadkut, Arshad, Mukesh)...even likes of Khaleel who used to operate in high 130's is now trundling in early 130's. While the likes of Tyagi, Nagarkoti, Harshit Rana, Mayank Yadav who are fast (140k+) are sitting on bench despite their teams in bottom half of the points table.
Only exception is Umran who played this year but is not in form (Prasidh, Mohsin, Bumrah and supposedly Kuldeep Sen are injured) and Tushar/Asif who are far from international quality.

 

 

India have lots of fast and fast-medium pacers nowadays, who are either good quality or have the potential to be so within a short time.

 

 

FAST ....

 

Bumrah .. injured

Umran

Tyagi .. tall

Sen .. tall

Saini .. tallish

 

 

FAST-MEDIUM but capable of frequent FAST spells ....

 

Siraj

Shami

Prasidh .. tall .. injured 

Mohsin .. tall .. fit now 

Umesh ( FAST from 2011 to 2017 )

Harshit Rana .. tall 

Nagarkoti .. maybe injured 

 

 

FAST-MEDIUM ....

 

Hardik 

Simarjeet .. maybe injured 

Mayank Yadav

Akashdeep .. tall

Khaleel .. tall 

Hangargekar .. tallish 

 

 

In this list, only Saini is probably a gone case and will never have quality in T20s. 

 

So, there are 17 pacers to choose from leaving out Saini .. and 13 are available now.

 

Edited by express bowling
Link to comment
Share on other sites
singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, express bowling said:

In this list, only Saini is probably a gone case and will never have quality in T20s. 

 

So, there are 16 pacers to choose from leaving out Saini .. and 11 are available now.

From the new pacers...Kuldeep is out after one match despite bowling, Hangargekar is out after one average game.
Tyagi, Mayank, Harshit are warming the bench (and are likely to do the same for next 5-6 years till they become 27-28 year old and lost all the motivation).
Even Kaverappa is not getting a game despite being talked by Harsha Bhogle as one who is to look for this season, I'm sure Yudhvir will be dropped as well by next game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
abc Contributor

abc

Posted
Posted

It is also not fair to say that the IPL is doing absolutely nothing to develop Indian cricket. The fact that there is a cap on the number of foreign players already shows that it is at its heart a tournament that is domestically rooted. Put differently, it is a tacit admission and recognition by the BCCI of the fact that local Indian players are not competitive enough on the global stage to make starting XIs without enforcing quotas. This is for instance very different in the football Bundesliga (Germany), where there is no local player quota.

 

Of course there is always more that could be done: you could introduce additional payouts for franchises who employ uncapped Indian players who go on to play for the national team. If the national team is lacking players for some role, they can again give monetary incentives to teams for at least having local players in the roster who fit the description - Bangladesh Cricket Board IIRC had a bonus for BPL franchises to contract Bangladeshi leg spinners (not sure it helped though ...).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
abc Contributor

abc

Posted
Posted

Also the fact that Associate and Affiliate nation players fall under overseas player restrictions is a bit laughable. What is the BCCI afraid of? That Ruben Trumpelmann will keep out Sakariya and Jaydev Unadkat will lose his place to Tangeni Lungameni? No place in the XI for Dhruv Jurel because Zane Green is the preferable option?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, abc said:

Also the fact that Associate and Affiliate nation players fall under overseas player restrictions is a bit laughable. What is the BCCI afraid of? That Ruben Trumpelmann will keep out Sakariya and Jaydev Unadkat will lose his place to Tangeni Lungameni? No place in the XI for Dhruv Jurel because Zane Green is the preferable option?

 

 

Well said !

 

Indian cricket has never been able to reach its full potential due to hatred towards bowling. And this has led to batsmen not reaching their full potential either. It's a vicious cycle. 

 

Just look at the SL spinners. They either try to spin the ball big or develop some mystery. Whereas most Indian spinners just try to put the ball in the right area without any venom.

 

Same for pacers. It's only recently that we are producing some good quicks but Mukesh Kumar types are keeping a lot of them out. 

 

We have still been able to produce some batting prodigies over the years due to raw talent perhaps. But even they have underachived IMO. The focus has been on cumulative stats instead of best possible efficacy for the team. And this due to the cricket culture that prevails here.

 

Edited by express bowling
Link to comment
Share on other sites
putrevus Grand Master

putrevus

Posted
Posted

IPL teams are doing enough to give fast bowlers chances, it is upto the fast bowlers to impress the team once they get in to the camps and in nets.

 

We kept here Saini is this great and that great for years but in reality he never had skills to match his hype. Bowling Gun barrel straight will get you wacked every time.

 

 

CSK is playing a overseas youngster , why would they not play a local player if he brings the same value to their team.

 

Umran Malik has been playing IPl for how many seasons now? he still is not their strike bowler. Who is to be blamed for that, Team or player himself.

 

Bowling occasional 140 does not make anbody into fast bowler, they need to have some atrributes and weapons to get batsmen out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
maniac Grand Master

maniac

Posted
Posted

India is a diverse country and diverse conditions. How hard it is to have different pitches in different regions?

 

I think a few years back we had good diversity: Spin tracks in Chennai, slow tracks that support reverse and spin in Hyderabad, good bouncy tracks in Mumbai and Kolkatta, run-fest in Bangalore etc. now all pitches look and feel the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sandz Mentor

Sandz

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

India have lots of fast and fast-medium pacers nowadays, who are either good quality or have the potential to be so within a short time.

 

 

FAST ....

 

Bumrah .. injured

Umran

Tyagi .. tall

Sen .. tall

Saini .. tallish

 

 

FAST-MEDIUM but capable of frequent FAST spells ....

 

Siraj

Shami

Prasidh .. tall .. injured 

Mohsin .. tall .. fit now 

Umesh ( FAST from 2011 to 2017 )

Harshit Rana .. tall 

Nagarkoti .. maybe injured 

 

 

FAST-MEDIUM ....

 

Hardik 

Simarjeet .. maybe injured 

Mayank Yadav

Akashdeep .. tall

Khaleel .. tall 

Hangargekar .. tallish 

 

 

In this list, only Saini is probably a gone case and will never have quality in T20s. 

 

So, there are 17 pacers to choose from leaving out Saini .. and 13 are available now.

 

I would put Siraj in the top bracket, he is consistently fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tapandrun Mentor

tapandrun

Posted
Posted

Ind oldies (Ishant, Shami, Umesh, etc) are bowling above 140s, but the younger lot is struggling to reach 135s should be concerning to BCCI.

 

Also not sure why Siraj is putting so much effort in IPL this season - Ind needs him in WC , should be rested in few IPL games. Right now he is Ind #1 bowler , what if he gets injured.

Ind right now are thin on intnl fast bowler owing to mismanagement and poor planning from Ind TM. 

 

I think there will be 3 (Siraj, Shami, Thakur/Bhuvi) fast bowler in 15 +Pandya and rest 3/4spinners (Jadeja, Axar, Kuldeep/Chahar or both ) and rest usual batting line up 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tapandrun Mentor

tapandrun

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

India have lots of fast and fast-medium pacers nowadays, who are either good quality or have the potential to be so within a short time.

 

 

FAST ....

 

Bumrah .. injured

Umran

Tyagi .. tall

Sen .. tall

Saini .. tallish

 

 

FAST-MEDIUM but capable of frequent FAST spells ....

 

Siraj

Shami

Prasidh .. tall .. injured 

Mohsin .. tall .. fit now 

Umesh ( FAST from 2011 to 2017 )

Harshit Rana .. tall 

Nagarkoti .. maybe injured 

 

 

FAST-MEDIUM ....

 

Hardik 

Simarjeet .. maybe injured 

Mayank Yadav

Akashdeep .. tall

Khaleel .. tall 

Hangargekar .. tallish 

 

 

In this list, only Saini is probably a gone case and will never have quality in T20s. 

 

So, there are 17 pacers to choose from leaving out Saini .. and 13 are available now.

 

 

 

Have not seen Tiyagi bowl that much, not sure with his injuries he  will be able to bowl 140+

Saini is not even intnl. quality, bowls full tosses and slower when  bowls full or yorkers. 

 

Mohsin  and Krishna have not played any cricket in last 1 year.

 

 

There were so many good finds last year, this year its all 130ish bowler that too when they are young in their mid 20s.

 

Only Deshpanday has bowled with some pace but has no wkt taking ability and no brains.

 

 

Edited by tapandrun
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vijy Grand Master

Vijy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

Have not seen Tiyagi bowl that much, not sure with his injuries he  will be able to bowl 140+

Saini is not even intnl. quality, bowls full tosses and slower when are to bowl full or yorkers. 

 

Mohsin  and Krishna have not played any cricket in last 1 year.

 

 

There were so many good finds last year, this year its all 130ish bowler that too when they are young in their mid 20s.

 

Only Deshpanday has bowled with some pace but has not wkt taking ability and no brains.

 

 

and not much height either. his body shape and fitness also seem dubious to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...