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Pakistan and Srilanka LOI bowling is more exciting than India’s: prove me wrong.


maniac

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@Adamant
as claimed by you i never hyped Avesh, don't troll by claiming things which aren't true
Avesh had fitness issues which has been discussed here ,perhaps you are new

you don't know what majority of ones feel about him
India had a poor fast bowling legacy,agreed but slowly they were building a fast bowling culture

,you may acknowledge Kohli for it,dont dispute that he too played a part

I don't care who does it, really want Indian pace attack to scare opposition


Prasidh has poor returns in t20s,Siraj too looked bad but he cameback very well later
But remember t20s are getting brutal to bowlers,they will get hit but they will also win you games
We need people who understand pace and its importance
One thing i have noticed in these guys is they get tend to get overboard with variations  in t20s they try to alter lengths too frequently in 4 overs thereby loosing their line as well
Our coaches are even more dumber as they don't understand the nuances of fast bowling in t20s and share their inputs
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Quick pacers who have played sufficient FC cricket have done well as bowlers ... like Bumrah, Shami snd Siraj.

 

Biggest issues that pacers like Tyagi, Umran, Prasidh, Nagarkoti, Mohsin etc. are facing is that they have got to play very little FC cricket.

 

They don't have well developed stock balls as a result and don't know what to do when they get hit.

They have been infected by this pseudo variation thing in t20s

From Khaleel to Mavi to everyone possible,they all haven't developed their stock deliveries

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1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

They have to sort out their injuries first.But likes of aaron,nathu,sen dont have great stats do they ? on the other hand likes of unadkat ,gaja etc have the numbers and it not just about stats but being able to bowl in a certain way.Sometimes conditions are too harsh and you got to look how the guy bowled but bowling just a few quick overs isnt enough for int cricket.

 

 

Not every quick pacer is going to do well. Some may lack the will to succeed while others may lack the intelligence. We have seen pacers like Wahab or Sami had horrible numbers.

 

That's why a large pacer pool is needed and you pick the best ones. 

 

And Fast bowlers will always have fitness issues. There were a lot of complaints against the NCA regarding how they managed injury of pacers between 2018 and 2021. 

 

Things will hopefully be better now with change of guard.

 

 

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

Umran is getting his chance ,but he has to perform or atleast match the other pacers otherwise mukesh will get his chance ,thats how it goes.

 

 

Umran needs to play a full season of Ranji Trophy. A game here and a game there won't help him develop as a bowler. 

 

 

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Number of First Class matches played by Indian quicks before Test debut ... 

 

 

Bumrah      28

Shami         24

Siraj            39

 

Prasidh      11 .... these pacers are yet to debut

Umran          4 

Tyagi            1

Sen             16

Nagarkoti    1

Mavi             8

Dayal          17

Mohsin         1

Avesh         27

Khaleel        6

 

 

....  Bumrah and Shami had played the ideal number of FC matches before Test debut, hence their bowling is so developed.

.... Siraj had played 10 matches too many. He was almost losing motivation.

..... Most of the other Indian quicker bowlers, barring Avesh, have played very few FC matches. And Covid has not helped either. 

.... Avesh is still under-developed despite 27 FC matches. Warning sign !

 

 

In a nutshell, all the budding quicks must look to play the entire upcoming Ranji season forgetting everything else. Hopefully, the BCCI will see to it.

 

This is the primary way they will develop as bowlers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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5 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

The problem of quick bowling is that they aren't that quick.Wahab and Sami were quick but given the opposition and the conditions, they weren't quick enough,so had to do more than just bowl fast .Specially in tests, they could run out of steam and would be neither here nor there.

 

All good fast bowlers are also good bowlers,they don't just rely on pace, maybe Johnson was an exception but he had those aus conditions which gave him extra pace and bounce and he also constantly changed his action to find what suited him.

 

 

No one looks for pacers who rely on only pace and nothing else.

 

It is just the starting point and then other skills have to developed, which primarily come from good coaching, playing around 25 FC matches and good fitness. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Fast bowlers need to develop quickly ,if they take too long they might run out of steam,so need to be picked early and guided properly.

 

True 

 

Which is why it is very important that young pacers like Tyagi, Umran, Mavi and Nagarkoti get to play 20 odd FC matches ASAP. 

 

4 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Avesh is not a good athlete so takes time to get into a spell,once in rhythm then he can bowl well but has his limitations.

 

I am not that hopeful about Avesh because of his poor fitness.

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12 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

numbers and it not just about stats but being able to bowl in a certain way.Sometimes conditions are too harsh and you got to look how the guy bowled but bowling just a few quick overs isnt enough for int cricket.

If you are talking about domestic matches,Do you think today,these selectors waste their time on deciphering  bowling patterns and spells of bowlers ?

95% of these selectors bank on stats only for selecting players

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4 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Fast bowlers need to develop quickly ,if they take too long they might run out of steam,so need to be picked early and guided properly.

 

Avesh is not a good athlete so takes time to get into a spell,once in rhythm then he can bowl well but has his limitations.

Way back in 2017-18 he was bowling just as same as he does today, bit more  short  

 

But used to run out of steam ridiculously in space of 2-3 deliveries

Pace was like sinesuidal graph,from 148s to 132 in one over with similar effort put on

If you ask him to bowl that quick he can very well do it today,he still cranks 145+ out of nowhere but his limitations are still there

I find his length getting shorter and shorter with increasing pressure infact most newcomers do it only exception is Saini, he serves halfvollies without breaking sweat

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Bowling at 145 to 150 clicks will take a lot out of any bowler. They will subconsciously reduce the speed.  Very few bowler had this innate urge to maintain speed. In the last 20  years  Brett Lee/Akhtar were the only two. Steyn was kind of a bowler who would bowl  fast only when he wants to not always. There was Tait.  But his career was not that long. Same with Bond. In a 4 over game it is not that hard to maintain high speed. 

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15 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Our coaches are even more dumber as they don't understand the nuances of fast bowling in t20s and share their inputs

What we say about batting is true for bowling too, we need a coach who has played and understands the format well even if he may not have excelled at it, but ideally someone like Steyn or Malinga who would be the equivalent of getting McCullum in as a coach who will bring fresh ideas. Arun was a great coach but it seems even he didn't know the optimal approach in white ball cricket nowadays, with the thinking reflecting more of the 90s-early 00s mindset when the game has changed. Part of Pakistan's bowling revival is down to some of the coaches who have consulted with them since the last t20 wc imo eg Philander, tait.

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3 hours ago, Vilander said:

You sounded wrong and got thoroughly found and corrected by many seasoned posters. In my opinion that's how you create a pigeon hole.

No one found anything out. Lol

 

On the contrary, there's not even a single post here which addresses my points. 

 

We are talent bankrupted in fast bowling, it's simple as that. 

 

Seasoned posters who don't have an eye for real pace bowling talent. 

 

Edited by Adamant
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46 minutes ago, Adamant said:

No one found anything out. Lol

 

On the contrary, there's not even a single post here which addresses my points. 

 

We are talent bankrupted in fast bowling, it's simple as that. 

 

Seasoned posters who don't have an eye for real pace bowling talent. 

 

We have more talent in fast bowling right now than anyone other team 

We literally have 7-9 bowlers on the roster waiting for call ups.

 

We CHOOSE TRUNDLERS. DOESNT MEAN WE DONT HAVE TALENTS. 

 

We have far better talents than parkies like you can ever dream of bitch. 

 

It's a sad state of affairs for parkies. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Adamant said:

No one found anything out. Lol

 

On the contrary, there's not even a single post here which addresses my points. 

 

We are talent bankrupted in fast bowling, it's simple as that. 

 

Seasoned posters who don't have an eye for real pace bowling talent. 

 

 

No, we have damn good talent when it comes to fast bowling. 

Its just that they arent developed enough when it comes to white ball cricket and a major reasons is lack of cricket most of em have played at top level . Gone are the days where having just tools was enough, in white ball cricket margin of error is so minimal now that execution becomes at most important

 

Their is no simple and short answer to it. 

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3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Bowling at 145 to 150 clicks will take a lot out of any bowler. They will subconsciously reduce the speed.  Very few bowler had this innate urge to maintain speed. In the last 20  years  Brett Lee/Akhtar were the only two. Steyn was kind of a bowler who would bowl  fast only when he wants to not always. There was Tait.  But his career was not that long. Same with Bond. In a 4 over game it is not that hard to maintain high speed. 

Where is this notion about steam being super fats coming from ?????

Seriously he only averaged 138 or so even in his peak. He is fast but yea only when he wants to ramp it up. Just like bumrah and Cummins.

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

Their is no simple and short answer to it. 

 

 

The short and simple answer is to make the quick bowlers play more and more white ball cricket.  

 

Create a pool of 10 quick pacers.

 

Play them in white ball cricket at every opportunity. (  IPL, Low profile bilatersls, A-Team ODIs, VHT, SMAT ) 

 

Maybe half of them will fail as they will lack white ball temperament ... like say a Saini.

 

The other half may become good white ball bowlers.

 

P.S ... Bowling basics are needed to become good white ball bowlers too. Which is is why all of them must play sufficient FC cricket. This is not happening. 

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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