Does Ravi Bishnoi have the skills to be a long term success?

[the don]

Stats aside, what do icfers think?

I personally feel that without a well spun leg break teams will start to line him up. 
With his current bowling armoury, he will be found out.

Edited October 7, 2022 by the don

[Ankit_sharma03]

In t20s - yes

but he needs to evolve 

[vvvslaxman]

He is in consideration only for T20 where he is fine as it is atleast until all teams figure him out.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

In t20s - yes

but he needs to evolve 

Babar will struggle against him. SO i guess against teams that don't have power hitters he will still be a force

[singhvivek141]

To OP...we don't have much options atm with wrist spin.
Rahul Chahar, Ravi Bishnoi, Yuzi Chahal and Kuldeep Yadav...that's all (maybe Mayank Markande as 5th).
Bishnoi can bowl fast spins and also turns his googly big, if he can develop a straight one (or slight legspin) then he will boost his chances alot.
Not to mention that he's better fielder than other names in the list and second best batter (after Rahul Chahar).

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Babar will struggle against him. SO i guess against teams that don't have power hitters he will still be a force

babar will struggle against anyone with a good googly, googly has been a major chink in his game for few yrs now 

Infact if u bowl SLA from other end, he ll have a issue with that too 

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, the don said:

Stats aside, what do icfers think?

I personally feel that without a well spun leg break teams will start to line him up. 
With his current bowling armoury, he will be found out.

From a legspin skill set, he’s better placed than, say a  Shadab. Shadab is obviously a 3 tool player. Bishnoi’s USP is Rashidesque, he just needs to execute better. 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

From a legspin skill set, he’s better placed than, say a  Shadab. Shadab is obviously a 3 tool player. Bishnoi’s USP is Rashidesque, he just needs to execute better. 

 

Half tracker merchant shadab will get creamed in one of the match.

[Norman]

He's what? 21-22? 

 

 

Has all the time in the world to learn and improve on his landing and control. Has great temperament too so that's a big plus. 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Half tracker merchant shadab will get creamed in one of the match.

Shadab as a leggie has plateaued and almost regressed as a bowler. Very similar to Piyush Chawla in some ways, both bowlers suffering from lack of FC development as spin  bowlers.  
 

He was such an exciting 3 tool prospect early on, and now it's almost  at the point where his batting becomes more of a value proposition than his bowling. Bad coaching and poor player development. His bowling has at least stopped getting worse and greenbros may yet get lucky with  him. Future captain for sure even if he underachieves relative to his potential 

Edited October 7, 2022 by sandeep

[Need4Speed]

Even Kumble didnt use to spin..I am not comparing him to Kumble but you dont need to spin..be accurate in what you do..

Imad wasim is also very accurate..and bowls fast..different type of bowler..but teams not able to line him up..

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

Even Kumble didnt use to spin..I am not comparing him to Kumble but you dont need to spin..be accurate in what you do..

Imad wasim is also very accurate..and bowls fast..different type of bowler..but teams not able to line him up..

 

Shahid Afridi. He could at times bowl at 120 kph

[Number]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

Shadab as a leggie has plateaued and almost regressed as a bowler. Very similar to Piyush Chawla in some ways, both bowlers suffering from lack of FC development as spin  bowlers.  
 

He was such an exciting 3 tool prospect early on, and now it's almost  at the point where his batting becomes more of a value proposition than his bowling. Bad coaching and poor player development. His bowling has at least stopped getting worse and greenbros may yet get lucky with  him. Future captain for sure even if he underachieves relative to his potential 

 

Underrating Shadab quite a bit here. He is mostly very accurate and gives neither room nor flight to batters to go after him.

Even Surya, who in current form can take any leggie apart, found difficult to score against him.

Also he choked Aussie batting in the world cup semis last year and turned the game firmly in Pakistan's grip at one point. Given that bowling spin in 2nd innings in Dubai is a very difficult task, that for me was one of the best spell of the tournament.

I don't rate him as a batsman much but he is definitely 2nd best leg spinner after Rashid Khan in T20s. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Number

[singhvivek141]

14 minutes ago, Number said:

 

Underrating Shadab quite a bit here. He is mostly very accurate and gives neither room nor flight to batters to go after him.

Even Surya, who in current form can take any leggie apart, found difficult to score against him.

Also he choked Aussie batting in the world cup semis last year and turned the game firmly in Pakistan's grip at one point. Given that bowling spin in 2nd innings in Dubai is a very difficult task, that for me was one of the best spell of the tournament.

I don't rate him as a batsman much but he is definitely 2nd best leg spinner after Rashid Khan in T20s. 

Better than Wanindu Hasaranga ??

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I don't see Bishnoi as a success in longer formats. 

 

I'm not sure about him in T20's either to be honest. The USP of a good wrist spinner is the ability to turn the ball both ways.

 

Chahal loses the plot often but we simply don't have another spinner who is as skilled and accurate as he is in T20's.

 

Damning indictment of our spin resources. 

[Number]

54 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Better than Wanindu Hasaranga ??

 

Hasranga may be more skillful. But Shadab definitely has better temperament. Rarely ends up with bad figures.

[sandeep]

8 hours ago, Number said:

 

Underrating Shadab quite a bit here. He is mostly very accurate and gives neither room nor flight to batters to go after him.

Even Surya, who in current form can take any leggie apart, found difficult to score against him.

Also he choked Aussie batting in the world cup semis last year and turned the game firmly in Pakistan's grip at one point. Given that bowling spin in 2nd innings in Dubai is a very difficult task, that for me was one of the best spell of the tournament.

I don't rate him as a batsman much but he is definitely 2nd best leg spinner after Rashid Khan in T20s. 

Shadab bowling average for T20s in SENA (last 3 years) is 35.  He hasn't played ODIs in Austrlia but his ODI bowling average in SA and Eng over 3 years is 80.  

 

Numbers are not always the best indicator of bowler quality, and I have watched his bowling on and off since his debut, and his bowling has plateaued and regressed since then.  Even keyboard warrior greenbros would be ready to accept that simple fact.  I don't want to get into unnecessary debates because outcomes in one or 2 random T20 games are dependent on many other factors apart from bowling quality.   Match situation can make a sub-par bowler have a very effective bowling spell in T20s, and vice versa.  At the end of the day, its the ability of the bowler to execute with consistency, and ability to bowl high quality deliveries is what will still determine his probability of success.  Doesn't guarantee it, but its the best predictor of 'success' we can get for the short lottery format that is T20.  So if you want to talk about his bowling skills, his ability to deliver with drift, loop, variations in degree of legspin, change of pace, googly, how disguised it is, whether he demonstrates the ability to deploy it cleverly etc thats fine.  You want to talk about rando games where he bowled a couple of overs and it worked out in his favor? That's not a measure of bowler quality.

[Stan AF]

No