Indian spearhead - Bhuvi v SA spearhead - Nortje (T20WC22)

[sandeep]

I would expect pimply teenagers to stoop to this level of cherry picking and childishness, not self-proclaimed 'masters' of analysis.  

 

Bhuvi is clearly nowhere near his peak effectiveness at the moment - his pace is below what it used to be, and he is not bowling the frequent yorkers that got him the success at the death for an extended period of time.  And criticism is fair game.  however, there is a difference between honest criticism, even impassioned emotions, and petty childishness.  Hey, its a free forum, folks are free to "mock" whatever they feel like - whether its a player's appearance, his hair style, or his skin color.  Just that this type of 'humor' says a lot more about themselves, than the player.

[zen]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

 

 

 

But but but but pphassst bro,  

 

Buddy, I see that you are upset with the comparison of the two "spearheads" of the two teams in the upcoming WC

 

Any insecurities? It is not Rabada's fault that he can bowl fast

 

[Chakdephatte]

This whole talk about performance in crunch matches is cliché and nonsensical. Tell me how someone who cannot even performance in useless bilaterals is going to deliver in big matches. We do remember some important matches but it's not like Dhoni was useless other than than Six off Kulasekra. Or Kapil Dev apart from that 175 against Zimbabwe. Yuvraj was a great batsman without 2011 World Cup as well, so was Rohit before 2019. So can't choose when to perform. Consistency is the key, not clutch, gear, or anything related. More so for batsmen.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Please remind us which "crunch" moments has Rabada delivered in for T20s,  which is where this comparison is being made.  Rabada is an elite level choker in T20s, special even among South Africans.  

 

I don't expect South Africans to win crunch situations as they have been the proverbial chokers.

 

I have not followed Rabada's international T20 career that closely but, generally speaking, SA players fail in crunch situations. 

 

This is partly a fun thread.

 

If the discussion was a serious one then I would pick neither among Rabada or Bhuvi for my T20I team, provided I had the choice. 

 

Infact it is very difficult to find good T20I pacers because most of them don't seem to be serious about international T20s except odd games here and there.

Edited October 9, 2022 by express bowling

[sandeep]

15 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Buddy, I see that you are upset with the comparison of the two "spearheads" of the two teams in the upcoming WC

 

Any insecurities? It is not Rabada's fault that he can bowl fast

 

"buddy" I am seeing a pattern of you diverging from common sense and facts and into troll level "logic", a distinct pattern of prioritizing stubborn silly 'grudge' arguments against opinions and perspectives that you disagree with, facts be damned.  I'm not going to bother with dime store "pop psychology" about what 'insecurities' or whatever is driving such choices, because frankly I don't give a damn.  The only reason I'm even elaborating here, is because its not ideal to see a historically 'good' contributor to the discussions, regress so much.  take it as honest feedback, or don't. up to you....

[zen]

17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

"buddy" I am seeing a pattern of you diverging from common sense and facts and into troll level "logic", a distinct pattern of prioritizing stubborn silly 'grudge' arguments against opinions and perspectives that you disagree with, facts be damned.  I'm not going to bother with dime store "pop psychology" about what 'insecurities' or whatever is driving such choices, because frankly I don't give a damn.  The only reason I'm even elaborating here, is because its not ideal to see a historically 'good' contributor to the discussions, regress so much.  take it as honest feedback, or don't. up to you....

 

Aren't we discussing which one of them would be picked as the spearhead? 

 

What is "grudgey" if people think Bhuvi is a trundler? Have you not seen the WK stand up to him in the first over on occasions? Have you not seen his now infamous 19th overs? 

 

Folks do prefer a "quality" bowler like Rabada, esp. having seen him win games for his IPL team(s)? In IPL both players perform in similar conditions against at least 6 common opponents. 

 

Both players are picked for their respective teams to lead the attack. One is considered a no brainer, while the other has question marks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by zen

[Ankit_sharma03]

37 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't expect South Africans to win crunch situations as they have been the proverbial chokers.

 

I have not followed Rabada's international T20 career that closely but, generally speaking, SA players fail in crunch situations. 

 

This is partly a fun thread.

 

If the discussion was a serious one then I would pick neither among Rabada or Bhuvi for my T20I team, provided I had the choice. 

 

Infact it is very difficult to find good T20I pacers because most of them don't seem to be serious about international T20s expect odd games here and there.

 

so for ur context this how it all started

i was stating in teams weakness how Rabada numbers have been quite avg as compare to his stature in t20i. Infact he isnt giving strong value to his team in any phase which someone like bhuvi-shaheen-hazelwood does for their team in PP and guys like bumrah does in death .

 

Poor butt hurt baby got hurt and wanted ego boost so he started asking whom will i choose bhuvi or rabada my answer was simple - i choose team acc to composition n many factors like conditions n matchup yea one thing for sure ill choose bumrah-archer anywhere and everywhere . 

Butthurt baby wanted ego boost and like an intern news reporter he wanted headline so he again asked whom will i choose bhuvi or rabada like he is asking @coffee_rules too now

 

So i said if i have to choose ill choose bhuvi and in fact many many more bowlers in t20 over Rabada even a spinner becoz his record is avg . 

Now my biggest issue with rabada is - he doesnt give his 100% as bowler which is why his pace is also not same so if its pace n bounce ill take nortje or wood or ill go for a completely diff kind of bowler may be spinner or may be bhuvi who give strong value in one phase

 

baby was butt hurt he wanted validation so he made this thread- now he is so butt hurt that he is himself showing how poor rabada has been this yr that his stats look worse then avesh khan who has had a horror start to his career . Im like yea great man prove my argument how rabada hasnt been good for his side isnt that how he started 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

This whole talk about performance in crunch matches is cliché and nonsensical. Tell me how someone who cannot even performance in useless bilaterals is going to deliver in big matches. We do remember some important matches but it's not like Dhoni was useless other than than Six off Kulasekra. Or Kapil Dev apart from that 175 against Zimbabwe. Yuvraj was a great batsman without 2011 World Cup as well, so was Rohit before 2019. So can't choose when to perform. Consistency is the key, not clutch, gear, or anything related. More so for batsmen.

by that logic na no one can ever pick any SA in World XI, imagine the quality and quantity of players ull have to ignore 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

so for ur context this how it all started

i was stating in teams weakness how Rabada numbers have been quite avg as compare to his stature in t20i. Infact he isnt giving strong value to his team in any phase which someone like bhuvi-shaheen-hazelwood does for their team in PP and guys like bumrah does in death .

 

Poor butt hurt baby got hurt and wanted ego boost so he started asking whom will i choose bhuvi or rabada my answer was simple - i choose team acc to composition n many factors like conditions n matchup yea one thing for sure ill choose bumrah-archer anywhere and everywhere . 

Butthurt baby wanted ego boost and like an intern news reporter he wanted headline so he again asked whom will i choose bhuvi or rabada like he is asking @coffee_rules too now

 

So i said if i have to choose ill choose bhuvi and in fact many many more bowlers in t20 overs even a spinner becoz his record is avg . 

Now my biggest issue with rabada is - he doesnt give his 100% as bowler which is why his pace is also not same so if its pace n bounce nortje or wood or ill go for a completely diff kind of bowler may be spinner or may be bhuvi who give strong value in one phase

 

baby was butt hurt he wanted validation so he made this thread- now he is so butt hurt that he is himself showing how poor rabada has been this yr that his stats look worse then avesh khan who has had a horror start to his career . Im like yea great man prove my argument how rabada hasnt been good for his side isnt that how he started 

 

 

 

Buddy, I am not interested in your "complains".  To be clear, the only thing related to your opinion on that thread is that made me wonder "Who (or how many) would chose Bhuvi?

 

 

 

 

[zen]

This yr, Bhuvi's most expensive overs:

 

 

India v South Africa at Delhi, 9 Jun 2022Bowler

B Kumar

 

22

Conc

 

 

India v Australia at Hyderabad (Deccan), 25 Sep 2022Bowler

B Kumar

 

21

Conc

 

 

India v Pakistan at Dubai (DSC), 4 Sep 2022Bowler

B Kumar

 

19

Conc

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by zen

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

Buddy, I am not interested in your "complains".  To be clear, the only thing related to your opinion on that thread is that made me wonder "Who (or how many) would chose Bhuvi?

 

 

 

 

Constantly seeking validation - how many ...

Please everyone agree with him, jitne karoge utna uska self esteem uthega.  

Rabada lelo varna he ll pick bowlers record in their worst time and compare him to rabada bad time which wont make rabada look good most times. Mat karo rabada ka kabada uss bechare ka t20 record avg hai mat khulwao uske record 

[coffee_rules]

Relax guys. Don’t take anybody’s opinions seriously

Remember this

 

[zen]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Constantly seeking validation - how many ...

Please everyone agree with him, jitne karoge utna uska self esteem uthega.  

Rabada lelo varna he ll pick bowlers record in their worst time and compare him to rabada bad time which wont make rabada look good most times. Mat karo rabada ka kabada uss bechare ka t20 record avg hai mat khulwao uske record 

 

Again dumb assumptions ... It is nothing about "me" 

 

I don't even know why you are bringing yourself in the picture?  Appears as if you are more butthurth about the invalidity of your own opinions

 

In IPL too, Rabada has commanded a higher price. 

 

 

 

[zen]

@Ankit_sharma03

 

I went through this thread. There is not even one post that mentions you. 

 

But if you want to make dumb accusations, I am HERE. What is your problem? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by zen

[Swag]

O/P just put up a poll and everyone can vote who they prefer.  

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Swag said:

O/P just put up a poll and everyone can vote who they prefer.  

 

As you wish, ... 

 

 

[zen]

First of all, good to read many of the funny comments! 

 

Second, let's look at IPL22 #s. In team Ind, a trundler can impress Chetan Sharma and his committee, but not necessarily in IPL's ruthless setup, where Rabada commanded a higher $: 

 

 

Wickets 

 

Rabada was the 3rd highest wicket taker - 23 wkts in 13 innings 

 

Bhuvi was the 27th highest wicket taker - 12 wkts in 14 innings (wkts < # of innings) 

 

 

Average, Economy, & Strike Rate (rounded)

 

Rabada: 18, 8, & 13

 

Bhuvi: 32, 7, & 26 

 

 

There is slim chance that Bhuvi will play over Rabada if both played for the same country (Ind or SA or IPL). A player can do well in a game or even a competition per his form but difficult to see any team start out Bhuvi over Rabada (if that were the choice). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, zen said:

Aren't we discussing which one of them would be picked as the spearhead? 

 

What is "grudgey" i

The fact that you made such a sad pathetic attempt at "framing" the question in this manner, is what's 'grudgey'.  You deliberately shifted the goalposts into "who's a spearhead".  A very different question than who is a 'better' or more 'effective' T20 bowler.  And for obvious reasons.  

 

The bottomline facts of the matter are that Rabada isn't even the "spearhead" for his own national team.  

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

so for ur context this how it all started

i was stating in teams weakness how Rabada numbers have been quite avg as compare to his stature in t20i. Infact he isnt giving strong value to his team in any phase which someone like bhuvi-shaheen-hazelwood does for their team in PP and guys like bumrah does in death .

 

Poor butt hurt baby got hurt and wanted ego boost so he started asking whom will i choose bhuvi or rabada my answer was simple - i choose team acc to composition n many factors like conditions n matchup yea one thing for sure ill choose bumrah-archer anywhere and everywhere . 

Butthurt baby wanted ego boost and like an intern news reporter he wanted headline so he again asked whom will i choose bhuvi or rabada like he is asking @coffee_rules too now

 

So i said if i have to choose ill choose bhuvi and in fact many many more bowlers in t20 over Rabada even a spinner becoz his record is avg . 

Now my biggest issue with rabada is - he doesnt give his 100% as bowler which is why his pace is also not same so if its pace n bounce ill take nortje or wood or ill go for a completely diff kind of bowler may be spinner or may be bhuvi who give strong value in one phase

 

baby was butt hurt he wanted validation so he made this thread- now he is so butt hurt that he is himself showing how poor rabada has been this yr that his stats look worse then avesh khan who has had a horror start to his career . Im like yea great man prove my argument how rabada hasnt been good for his side isnt that how he started 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let it go - there are some folks who have mental hangups when they feel that they aren't "winning" a discussion disagreement.  Some folks have the capacity to concede gracefully, or walk away, others keep taking passive aggressive potshots and make repeated attempts to "re-frame" the argument to tilt the discussion in their favor.  Its a free forum - to each his own.

[zen]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

The fact that you made such a sad pathetic attempt at "framing" the question in this manner, is what's 'grudgey'.  You deliberately shifted the goalposts into "who's a spearhead".  A very different question than who is a 'better' or more 'effective' T20 bowler.  And for obvious reasons.  

 

The bottomline facts of the matter are that Rabada isn't even the "spearhead" for his own national team.  

 

yes, the discussion is for the spearhead, which is what "opening" bowlers are expected to be duh!