All-rounders

[Pollack]

Are the below players really allrounders. If yes,  who?

Deepak Chahar

Washington Sundar

Deepak Hooda

Shardul Thakur

Axar Patel

 

If the mentioned above players (except Axar) were really allrounders then today we would have scored more runs.

 

Or @Khota is right, allrounders dont exist?

My assessment so far:

 

Deepak chahar : Bowler who can slog a bit.

 

Washington Sundar : Batsman who can bowl a bit

 

Deepak Hooda : Batsman (not international level) and a part timer who most probably chucks

 

Shardul Thakur : Quality version of bits and pieces player

 

Axar Patel : Bowler. His basics are right as a Batsman and he can surely develop but why waste time like we did for Jadeja for years. Currently I consider him tailender only.

 

Who are proper allrounders in domestics who can be groomed?

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Pollack

[Vijy]

Just now, Pollack said:

Are the below players really allrounders. If yes,  who?

Deepak Chahar

Washington Sundar

Deepak Hooda

Shardul Thakur

Axar Patel

 

Or @Khota is right, allrounders dont exist?

 

sundar is definitely an AR in LOIs, not so in tests. Pandu is also an AR in LOIs.

 

hooda - batter who can bowl a bit

chahar & thakur - can neither bowl nor bat

axar - can bowl on raging turners, can't bowl otherwise, and cannot bat

[Majestic]

3 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Are the below players really allrounders. If yes,  who?

Deepak Chahar

Washington Sundar

Deepak Hooda

Shardul Thakur

Axar Patel

 

Or @Khota is right, allrounders dont exist?

 

Genuine A/R:-

 

Pandya - ODIs, T20Is

Jadeja - Tests, ODIs

Sundar - ODIs, Tests overseas because the bar is lower for our spinners overseas 

 

Rest:

Shardul - A test match no.8 and 4th pacer, LOIs- No

D Chahar - T20Is( as bowling A/R)

Hooda - Naah, not good enough in first skill

Axar - can bowl on raging turners

 

[Vijy]

10 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Genuine A/R:-

 

Pandya - ODIs, T20Is

Jadeja - Tests, ODIs

Sundar - ODIs, Tests overseas because the bar is lower for our spinners overseas 

 

Rest:

Shardul - A test match no.8 and 4th pacer, LOIs- No

D Chahar - T20Is( as bowling A/R)

Hooda - Naah, not good enough in first skill

Axar - can bowl on raging turners

 

I agree with jaddu's inclusion, but with the caveat that he is not a genuine match winner in ODIs with bat or ball. sundar, IMO, can win matches with bat in tests and ODIs

[Pollack]

27 minutes ago, Vijy said:

sundar is definitely an AR in LOIs, not so in tests. Pandu is also an AR in LOIs.

 

hooda - batter who can bowl a bit

chahar & thakur - can neither bowl nor bat

axar - can bowl on raging turners, can't bowl otherwise, and cannot bat

Sundar has to improve his batting a lot for limited overs cricket and bowling for tests. At the moment he is not a genuine allrounder.

 

We have only two genuine allrounders one is Pandya (ODI and T20s) and Jadeja (Tests).

 

Even Pandya is sasta version of stokes in terms of talent and if clutch knocks are considered.

[AuxiliA]

Jadeja and Ashwin are surely genuine ARs in Tests. Potentially ATGs (if they bowl well overseas) . 

 

Pandya is also a world class white ball AR on current form. Fields great, bowls quick and can smash it with the bat. Would get into most teams right now. 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by AuxiliA

[Lord]

21 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I agree with jaddu's inclusion, but with the caveat that he is not a genuine match winner in ODIs with bat or ball. sundar, IMO, can win matches with bat in tests and ODIs

Jaddu won us CT 2013 final and played many knocks where we won or got close.

 

Sundar so far has not showed that ability with bat, Has to bat fearlessly and improve hitting.

 

Sundar will be more of a middle order anchor who can bowl going forward.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I agree with jaddu's inclusion, but with the caveat that he is not a genuine match winner in ODIs with bat or ball. sundar, IMO, can win matches with bat in tests and ODIs

I should apply the condition that genuine A/R here not necessarily mean those are elite level. They are just about good enough to be termed as A/R.

[badmash]

Pant and rohit are best all rounders India has … they got a very round body 

[express bowling]

Washington is a genuine allrounder in LOIs. So is Hardik now. 

 

Chahar, Harshal and Shardul are all-rounders in the sense that they are neither proper bowlers nor proper batsmen. They are there to dilute the quality of our pace bowling. 

[cricketfan28]

sundar looks alright so far showed character

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Pollack said:

Are the below players really allrounders. If yes,  who?

Deepak Chahar

Washington Sundar

Deepak Hooda

Shardul Thakur

Axar Patel

 

If the mentioned above players (except Axar) were really allrounders then today we would have scored more runs.

 

Or @Khota is right, allrounders dont exist?

My assessment so far:

 

Deepak chahar : Bowler who can slog a bit.

 

Washington Sundar : Batsman who can bowl a bit

 

Deepak Hooda : Batsman (not international level) and a part timer who most probably chucks

 

Shardul Thakur : Quality version of bits and pieces player

 

Axar Patel : Bowler. His basics are right as a Batsman and he can surely develop but why waste time like we did for Jadeja for years. Currently I consider him tailender only.

 

Who are proper allrounders in domestics who can be groomed?

 

 

They don't. You cannot perform two tasks at that level. Show me one competitive sport where allrounder concept is applicable. Nowhere.

[putrevus]

Thakur won Perth test with his bat and bowling. He was best bowler in 2nd test in SA. I will take Thakur over Pandya in test cricket in SENA . Pandya stunk for whole t 20 World Cup except couple of over with bat and he is genuine all rounder??

[cricspirit]

Jadeja and Pandya are the only two All-rounders who can Bat, bowl and Field. 

 

Ashwin has class with the Bat but I only rate him for Tests.

 

Rest Can come up with some runs from time to time but cant expect them to. If I think like that Srinath and Kumble also made some runs while being top line bowlers. 

 

Deepak Chahar -- LOI only and iffy with the ball when it does not go his way. What's the point. 

Thakur - Better for Tests with both bat and ball, can hit the ball but cant really trust him for anything in limited overs. neither batting or bowling. He can play poorly and get away with it as there are no expectations.

Axar Patel - Test spinner in India, Bowling ok in Limited overs but I dont even expect 10 runs from him when he comes to bat. Everything is bonus. How can I think of him as an all-rounder at this point ?

'Washington Sundar - Good Technique with the bat but what is he doing after the Aussie test heroics. Injured most of the time. He is reverse of Axar. I can expect runs from him though not quick runs. However, his bowling is a bonus only. 

Hooda- Get off my face. play IPL only.

 

 

We cant expect to fill up the team with plain average players and expect excellent performance from the team.  The team is a total mess giving no confidence in limited overs. We are better in Tests,  

 

We miss the days when Sachin, Viru, Ganguly, Yuvraj could easily bowl overs to take pressure from bowlers. Those days we did not have as many fast bowlers available which meant the overall team was not stronger. Now our Batsmen cant bowl to save their life and Dont give the confidence with Bat either. So we try to create a deep batting order with players who are neither strong in any aspect of the game. To do this we compromise on Quality of bowling.  Fielding has fallen off the cliff..  The cricket is so bad that I dont even watch anymore.

 

For all the negative comments that Jadeja gets and to an extent Pandya.. We dont have any better. In absence of Bumrah, Pandya and Jadeja.. Team quality is even poorer. Still waiting for the so called abundance of talent to come and make a mark. Every new player tried in every capacity has come and gone without impressing ( Except Gill).

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by cricspirit

[nitinbwj]

Sundar played like a tailender yesterday but has the ability to go big. He should play few more games. 

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, Majestic said:

I should apply the condition that genuine A/R here not necessarily mean those are elite level. They are just about good enough to be termed as A/R.

yes, I think your assessment is correct

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

Jadeja and Ashwin are surely genuine ARs in Tests. Potentially ATGs (if they bowl well overseas) . 

 

Pandya is also a world class white ball AR on current form. Fields great, bowls quick and can smash it with the bat. Would get into most teams right now. 

 

ashwin is not genuine AR in tests. his batting is quite ordinary in past several years, apart from some isolated knocks

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Jaddu won us CT 2013 final and played many knocks where we won or got close.

 

Sundar so far has not showed that ability with bat, Has to bat fearlessly and improve hitting.

 

Sundar will be more of a middle order anchor who can bowl going forward.

he does have some isolated achievements in a 13-14 yr career. in the short period he has played, sundar has shown more glimpses of his ability

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, Pollack said:

Sundar has to improve his batting a lot for limited overs cricket and bowling for tests. At the moment he is not a genuine allrounder.

 

We have only two genuine allrounders one is Pandya (ODI and T20s) and Jadeja (Tests).

 

Even Pandya is sasta version of stokes in terms of talent and if clutch knocks are considered.

I said he was genuine in ODIs, not in tests. his batting is fine for ODIs, just that he's not gotten a consistent run

[singhvivek141]

We need to go back to the drawing board in order to set our expectations with "All rounder"
 

1. Genuine Allrounder : Someone who can get into the team based on either skill itself, IMO Pandya don't justify the place based on his bowling alone, but still I will consider him here as he's closest

2. Batting Allrounder : Someone who is good with their primary skill i.e. batting and can also chip in with ball (4-6 overs). Hooda isn't performing with his primary skill so his place is in doubt, Venkatesh Iyer was doing it last year but has fallen out of pecking order. I still think Washington potentially can end here, we also have Abhishek Sharma and/or Yashasvi Jaiswal.

3. Bowling allrounder : Proper bowlers with ability to contribute via bat (17-25 runs). Here we have to see how good Deepak or Shardul are with bowl. If they justify their place as a pure bowler, we can consider them. Else, move away and look for other options and develop them (Hangargekar is leading that list, Bishnoi & Nagarkoti have potential).

4. Bits and Piece : This one we have in abundance, players who does a bit of this and a bit of that..but can't play based on one skill. 

Ideally We need 1 each from top 2 category, while 2 from 3rd. So that from 1-8 we can get 4 bowling options + 3 bowlers (9-11). Bit's and pieces shouldn't be choosen at any cost.

If not this then below conditions apply
A) pack the team with 1/2 (BaR), 2 (BoR) + 3 bowlers. (BoR at 7-8)
B) 1/2 (BaR), 1 (BoR), 1 (B&P) + 3 Bowlers (B&P at 7, BoR at 8)