Better spin A/R in Tests - Vettori or Jadeja?

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, Pollack said:

Jaddu always had batting ability. He just wasn't suitable for LOIs.

correct, his 3 triples were not a complete fluke (although they were achieved on pattas)

[Majestic]

10 hours ago, Vijy said:

vettori didn't do well in the matches he played in india (and perhaps other parts of SC). moreover, if I recall correctly, he feasted quite a bit on likes of bang (who were very weak then) and zim; more so than Jaddu.

 

vettori was definitely a true AR in tests after the first 30-35% of his test career.

 

9 hours ago, Pollack said:

Yes he was true AR in tests. In tests, he exceeded expectations in batting compared to his ability.

When I saw his batting stats in Tests, I was surprised that he got 6 hundreds and has got 4500 runs because he seemed to be a no.8 only and I expected him to be averaging around 22-24. That maybe due to his ODI batting where he was strictly a no.8 and averages 18 with bat.

 

But 6 hundreds and average of 30 over 100+ matches in Tests definitely puts him in all rounder category.

[AuxiliA]

12 hours ago, Pollack said:

While terming Jadeja better spinner than Vettori one must take into account subcontinent pitches that Jadeja thrived in along with an equally destructive spin bowler Ashwin to partner.  Also vettori wasn't really an allrounder but punched above his weight in batting in tests. 

 

 

17 hours ago, zen said:

I am not sure if Jadeja can be competitive if not for those turning Indian pitches. 
 

His OS bowling record is relatively abysmal. 

 

 

Funny how some fans leave no opportunity to bag Jadeja (& Ashwin too) for feasting on spinning tracks but never apply the same measure with SENA pacers. 

 

I wonder what's the reason. Low self esteem? Gorra worship? Colonial mentality? 

[Clarke]

Numbers wise Jaddu is obviously way ahead in tests but on standalone basis, Vettori was a very good player in my book. He played most of his cricket in NZ where batting typically gets easier as the test progresses. He faced many great players & teams in his era, Aus, SA & Ind for instance. Players these days aren't anywhere as good against spin, but one can't put down Jadeja's contributions since he can only bowl at who's facing. 

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, AuxiliA said:

 

 

 

 

Funny how some fans leave no opportunity to bag Jadeja (& Ashwin too) for feasting on spinning tracks but never apply the same measure with SENA pacers. 

 

I wonder what's the reason. Low self esteem? Gorra worship? Colonial mentality? 

Statistically Jadeja's been the best (spin) bowler with his wicket quality being extremely high! Now admittedly he's no Shane Warne but he's leagues above anyone on flat pitches that I've seen 

https://www.indiancricketfans.com/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=129445&content_commentid=4683793

[Adamant]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:16 PM, zen said:

I am not sure if Jadeja can be competitive if not for those turning Indian pitches. 
 

His OS bowling record is relatively abysmal. 

His overseas stats are better than most spinners.

His away averages are :
Aus - 21
Sa -25
Nz-60
Eng -45
WI -25
SRL-28

so basIcally great in 4 and bad in 2, an allrounder  like this is worth his weight in Gold, also he has been hugely impactful in aus and won us matches there.

 

[Adamant]

This isn't even a comparison, Jadeda is way ahead both as a bowler and batsman

[Pollack]

19 hours ago, AuxiliA said:

 

 

 

 

Funny how some fans leave no opportunity to bag Jadeja (& Ashwin too) for feasting on spinning tracks but never apply the same measure with SENA pacers. 

 

I wonder what's the reason. Low self esteem? Gorra worship? Colonial mentality? 

Jadeja and Ashwin feasted on spinning tracks a lot. That is the truth. Add to it the fact that spin playing capability has fallen amongst all countries including even India. That doesn’t mean i rate them average just that their stats are inflated and stats are always used to point towards ones superiority, isnt it? I will apply the similar measures with SENA pacers too.

 

Tests: My personal opinion is Vettori is better spinner (disregarding stats) than Jadeja. I will admit I am not very convinced while saying so but I go by my instincts here. Jadeja is leaps and bounds better batsman than Vettori. If I had to chose one I will chose Jadeja since he provides overall more utility.

 

ODIs : Vettori >>>>>>> Jadeja. I won't even agree Jadeja being better batsman than vettori even though vettori himself no great with bat.To hell with Jadeja's batting average. Bowling no competition. Vettori wins hands down.

[Jamadagni]

In Tests: No comparison. Jadeja is way ahead. 

 

In LOIs: No comparison. Vettori is way ahead. 

 

 

[R!TTER]

Just a guesstimate but had Jadeja played 70-80 tests by now he'd have close to 400 wickets & well over 4000 runs, especially if he played as many tests as Ashwin in India! That'd put him statistically among the best, if not the best "true allrounder" ever 

 

Now admittedly being fit is also a part of your job, but much like SRT Jadeja hasn't played that many tests at his peak! I wish he'd skip IPL to concentrate more on his India career but that's not happening 

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

This isn't even a comparison, Jadeda is way ahead both as a bowler and batsman

Vettori has 4500 test runs with 6 hundreds.  Jadeja is ahead but definitely not way ahead.

 

Bowling wise, Jadeja's average is 40 when bowling as a lone spinner. His recent overseas performance for example when he has been doing well with bat, has gone downhill with the bowl. 

 

Among bowlers with 200+ test wickets, only Kallis, Sobers, Dev and Botham have more runs than Vettori.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Majestic

[zen]

Even OS over a period of time, Jadeja would usually play on pitches where there is help for spinners. 

[Adamant]

39 minutes ago, zen said:

Even OS over a period of time, Jadeja would usually play on pitches where there is help for spinners. 

It is unrealistic to expect a spin allrounder to perform in seaming conditions, even specialist spinners except Murali and Warne fail there. 

 

Jadeja has done well enough in overseas conditions, definitely better than whatever Vettori managed to do.. 

 

Australia is usually known as a graveyard for finger spinners and Jadeja averages 21 there, that's phenomenal. 

 

South African pitches hardly help spinners and even then he did well there. 

 

 

The best thing about Jadeja is that even when he is not getting wickets he is able to hold runs unlike spinners like Yasir, Lyon, leach etc. 

 

[Vijy]

19 hours ago, Majestic said:

Vettori has 4500 test runs with 6 hundreds.  Jadeja is ahead but definitely not way ahead.

 

Bowling wise, Jadeja's average is 40 when bowling as a lone spinner. His recent overseas performance for example when he has been doing well with bat, has gone downhill with the bowl. 

 

Among bowlers with 200+ test wickets, only Kallis, Sobers, Dev and Botham have more runs than Vettori.

 

 

 

all of these people have played close to 100 tests (or more).

[putrevus]

Vettori was at best a journeyman spinner. Jadeja is worth in gold and is 1000 times better than Vettori ever was in everything, bowling batting and fielding.