Hatsoff to Jadeja and Ashwin - Golden combination for Indian test cricket

[vvvslaxman]

I think in SA in one innings 4 catches were dropped off Ashwin's bowling.

 

 

[sensible-indian]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 At least first understand what is being discussed. I am referring to familar conditions relatively speaking. And in the test mentioned, spinners picked up close to 2/3rd wkts duh. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Try to understand what I am saying"

 

"Relatively speaking"

 

"Familiar conditions" (even tho data suggests otherwise)

 

"you need depth to understand why a team is starting out with 2 spinners instead of one" (agreed...totally explains why Sydney has been a flat patta backed by stats and Lyon's own record)

 

"Most posters don't understand stats"

 

"Only I understand stats"

 

"But I dodge and weave when someone who ACTUALLY knows how to use stats spends 5 minutes pulling up stats that just debunks my comments"

[sensible-indian]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

 

One guy made 500+ runs in one of the series, which is equivalent to picking up 25+ wkts (if you equate a 100 with a 5-er) in 4 tests ... Many cricketers make small contributions. 

 

Pujara is not a hero to me. No one is (don't make random assumptions) ... I "support" him because he is a old fashioned classical test batsman. 

 

 

Pujara makes 500 - AMAZINGGGG

 

Ashwin and Jaddu - Pick crucial wickets, score runs, blockathon to turn a certain loss into a draw --> OVER-RATED. These spinners only know how to pick wickets in tailor made conditions and they are USELESS.

 

Your posts are a parody.

 

But do you realize it?

 

I guess not.

[zen]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

 

"Try to understand what I am saying"

 

"Relatively speaking"

 

"Familiar conditions" (even tho data suggests otherwise)

 

"you need depth to understand why a team is starting out with 2 spinners instead of one" (agreed...totally explains why Sydney has been a flat patta backed by stats and Lyon's own record)

 

"Most posters don't understand stats"

 

"Only I understand stats"

 

"But I dodge and weave when someone who ACTUALLY knows how to use stats spends 5 minutes pulling up stats that just debunks my comments"

 

Only one line for you - "Don't make stuff up and interpret wrongly (childish if doing it on purpose), and "Read". 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

Pujara makes 500 - AMAZINGGGG

 

Ashwin and Jaddu - Pick crucial wickets, score runs, blockathon to turn a certain loss into a draw --> OVER-RATED. These spinners only know how to pick wickets in tailor made conditions and they are USELESS.

 

Your posts are a parody.

 

But do you realize it?

 

I guess not.

 

Gujara looked out of depth in Bangladesh lol Ashwin outbatted him and won the match from 74/7.  Scored runs only on flat pitch in the first test.  There are many instances where these 2 put their hands up. 

 

This is Ashwin's very first Test in England. Second top score in first innings. Top score in 2nd innings. Where was this guy Gujara? When the conditions are tough to bat on i would rather trust Ashwin/Jaddu over Pujara easily.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-england-2014-667693/england-vs-india-4th-investec-test-667717/full-scorecard

[zen]

4 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Pujara makes 500 - AMAZINGGGG

 

 

 

it is amazing 

 

 

Quote

Ashwin and Jaddu - Pick crucial wickets, score runs, blockathon to turn a certain loss into a draw --> OVER-RATED. These spinners only know how to pick wickets in tailor made conditions and they are USELESS.

 

Good but that's not like picking up 25 wkts in a test series. 

 

Only thing they are mostly good at is rolling on Indian tailored wickets (a way of cheating in my book). 

[vvvslaxman]

Average 

Ashwin

in West Indies 23.17

in Srilanka       21.57 (dismissed sanga 4 out of 4 times)

in BD               28.41

In  England     28.11

in NZ               33.00

Jadeja 

In West Indies 25.55

In Srilanka       28.76

In SA               25.66

In Australia       21.78

 

I guess Ashwin and Jaddu had "tailors" in those countries. These guys were not even the regulars in some countries. Hey India dominates left /right/center for 12 years at home. Last thing for an Indian fan would do is to "piss all over the wins with custom "****" filters". 

 

Don't expect much from someone who credits leg byes/byes to individuals lol

[zen]

Ashwin & Jadeja have been among the weakest bowlers (or even players) in SENA in terms of bowling avg, SR, and # of 5-ers (yes, they may have a 1-2 good performance(s) here and there):

 

Primary team India

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Qualifications innings bowled in greater than or equal to 30

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
JJ Bumrah	2018-2022	24	47	910.3	217	2476	101	6/33	9/86	24.51	2.71	54.0	5	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2022	33	61	1129.0	196	3884	119	6/56	8/107	32.63	3.44	56.9	4	0
I Sharma	2010-2021	35	61	1261.2	229	4101	116	7/74	9/162	35.35	3.25	65.2	5	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2022	19	33	684.5	129	1822	48	6/138	7/258	37.95	2.66	85.6	1	0
R Ashwin	2011-2022	24	42	972.3	165	2754	70	4/55	7/121	39.34	2.83	83.3	0	0

 

^ The above is comparable to Moeen Ali's bowling performances (Moeen has 4 5-ers or so). Moeen Ali actually outbowled Ashwin in one of the tests, where there was relatively help for spin, in England - Link (Ashwin even opened the bowling in the 2nd inning). 

 

PS Just a Harbhajan has 3 5-ers in like 34 innings! Combined these two have 1 5-er in 75 innings

 

Now these guys, along with other such bowlers, pick up wkts at will in India (fighting to get the ball to reach a milestone), who is going to take it seriously!! 

Edited February 20, 2023 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

Moeen Ali's number of fifers in  India/Srilanka/West Indies 0  in 25 innings. May be he has a different "tailor"? 

[vvvslaxman]

One final burnol moment.  Guy who was always available for 13 years instead of getting injured after 4 overs are the true India's match winners. Not guys with self-proclaimed "aura"

 

[zen]

Performance of spinners in SENA since 2010:

 

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications innings bowled in greater than or equal to 30

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2023	86	162	3524.1	724	10250	321	7/152	12/286	31.93	2.90	65.8	11	2
KA Maharaj (SA)	2016-2023	40	66	1159.1	220	3648	114	7/32	9/97	32.00	3.14	61.0	7	0
GP Swann (ENG)	2010-2013	35	64	1373.1	261	4238	128	6/65	10/132	33.10	3.08	64.3	8	1
RA Jadeja (IND)	2013-2022	19	33	684.5	129	1822	48	6/138	7/258	37.95	2.66	85.6	1	0
MM Ali (ENG)	2014-2021	45	77	1267.0	185	4601	119	6/53	10/112	38.66	3.63	63.8	4	1
JP Duminy (SA)	2010-2017	26	32	234.2	22	816	21	4/47	4/51	38.85	3.48	66.9	0	0
R Ashwin (IND)	2011-2022	24	42	972.3	165	2754	70	4/55	7/121	39.34	2.83	83.3	0	0
HMRKB Herath (SL)	2011-2017	20	33	789.5	106	2317	54	5/79	9/128	42.90	2.93	87.7	2	0
JE Root (ENG)	2013-2023	96	90	496.0	89	1665	32	4/87	4/112	52.03	3.35	93.0	0	0
SPD Smith (AUS)	2010-2023	72	49	197.0	28	729	14	3/18	4/83	52.07	3.70	84.4	0	0

 

 

These two are closer to Moeen and Duminy ... Lol even Herath, who is similar to these two, has 2 5-ers in 33 innings  

 

 

No player's career is defined by performances in one type of conditions (hints at fraud) and that too tailored to handicap other teams as they only play a handful of tests every few years on such! 

 

[vvvslaxman]

So a guy who are good in SENA should be better than these guys in India lol  Moeen Ali averages 48 in India. Lyon averages 30 in India.  Basically these guys will average 30, 40 everhwhere somehow are better than guys who averages 19 at home for 10 years!  I guess India should play 5 spinners in SENA to prove spinners can do well  there.  Insanely stupid filters. Forget about India. Asia/West indies  wonder who will take wickets. There is a reason why England keeps losing tests in West Indies. Because they have no spinners that can trouble them.

 

last 4 series of England in West Indies

 

2022 - Windies

2019 - Windies

2015 - Drawn

2009 - West Indies

Edited February 21, 2023 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

Both Austarlia and England lost at Mirpur against Bangladesh. May be we should hire their SENA specialists with an average of 30.

[zen]

Worst performance in won games in SENA:

 

View overall figures

Primary team India

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Match result won match

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
HH Pandya	2018-2018	2	4	28.0	7	68	6	5/28	6/50	11.33	2.42	28.0	1	0
Harbhajan Singh	2010-2010	1	2	36.2	7	80	6	4/10	6/80	13.33	2.20	36.3	0	0
Z Khan	2010-2010	1	2	30.0	5	93	6	3/36	6/93	15.50	3.10	30.0	0	0
JJ Bumrah	2018-2021	8	16	317.2	79	816	47	6/33	9/86	17.36	2.57	40.5	3	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	2	4	84.0	30	186	10	6/82	6/103	18.60	2.21	50.4	1	0
S Sreesanth	2010-2010	1	2	22.0	2	86	4	3/45	4/86	21.50	3.90	33.0	0	0
Mohammed Siraj	2020-2021	5	10	184.2	45	531	23	5/73	8/126	23.08	2.88	48.0	1	0
I Sharma	2010-2021	7	14	227.0	44	637	27	7/74	7/135	23.59	2.80	50.4	1	0
SN Thakur	2021-2021	3	6	82.0	12	293	12	4/61	7/155	24.41	3.57	41.0	0	0
Mohammed Shami	2014-2021	7	14	220.1	45	735	29	5/28	8/107	25.34	3.33	45.5	2	0
R Ashwin	2018-2021	4	8	193.5	47	357	14	3/35	6/149	25.50	1.84	83.0	0	0
UT Yadav	2020-2021	2	4	52.5	6	180	7	3/60	6/136	25.71	3.40	45.2	0	0
RA Jadeja	2014-2021	5	10	202.4	44	403	15	3/82	5/127	26.86	1.98	81.0	0	0

 

 

Oh boy, just look at the pathetic SRs even in won games

 

 

In India, these guys do NOT bowl to Indian batsmen, who as a line up are rated among the best to play spin (Other team bowlers bowl to Indian batsmen and many times they bring in inexperienced bowlers to India too).  If they bowled to Indian batsmen in tests in India, they may struggle relatively there too (despite specializing in bowling on turners, almost an irrelevant skill)  

Edited February 21, 2023 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

I have never seen such a  dumb low sample filter in ICF lol This one takes the cake

[vvvslaxman]

Gujara got out to Jack leach 4 times in a row for low scores lol India plays spin better  Only guys who play well are Rohit/Jaddu/Ashwin/Axar/Pant

[zen]

Pol khul gayee! ... These useless turner specialists when in SENA:

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by zen

[Vilander]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:51 AM, speedracer said:

 

Give kumble goat Asian pace attack I.e Indian attack and he will rip through teams in sena too.

 

Kumble was not a great turner of the ball, but very accurate and consistent. And Ash Jaddu are similar in bowling impact and better in batting. They are largely in the same level as spinners.

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, sensible-indian said:

Yes. I read what you wrote.

 

You couldnt make it simpler that you dont know what you are talking about.

 

Plus you dont know how to use stats let alone interpret them.

 

If you did, you wouldnt be so biased to the point its comical.

 

Guys you are feeding a troll. He is an agenda poster, just relax. Ash and Jadhu are goat contenders for India and legit greats Internationally. Very lucky to have two allrounders of this caliber playing together and not to mention folks like akshar sundar coming in. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Vilander

[Adamant]

Ash and Jaddu are 10 times the cricketer Hardik Pandya will ever be.

 

I have no respect for a guy who leaves test cricket and plays IPL even though he can do well in tests.