ravishingravi Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 5 minutes ago, zen said: Trudeau may be a manipulator but it does not mean that India is not carrying out “assignments” overseas. I won’t be surprised if it is eventually discovered that there is some sort of GOI involvement. Link Last November, US investigators said they had thwarted an attempt by an Indian government official to murder Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, a firebrand Sikh separatist and dual citizen of the US and Canada. Other prominent Sikh Khalistani activists in the US, Canada and the UK also said they had also been given warnings of threats to their lives. According to intelligence officials who spoke to the Guardian this year, India had also ordered the assassination of dozens of individuals in Pakistan, including Sikhs, as part of a wider strategy to eliminate terrorists living on foreign soil. It is impossible to prove this kind of involvement conclusively. My best guess. Maybe Indian govt might have used CIA tactic of leveraging fissures and conflicts. And I can see that Canada also believes this is case. But there are beliefs and then there are evidences.
LordPrabhzy Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 7 minutes ago, zen said: Trudeau may be a manipulator but it does not mean that India is not carrying out “assignments” overseas. I won’t be surprised if it is eventually discovered that there is some sort of GOI involvement. Link Last November, US investigators said they had thwarted an attempt by an Indian government official to murder Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, a firebrand Sikh separatist and dual citizen of the US and Canada. Other prominent Sikh Khalistani activists in the US, Canada and the UK also said they had also been given warnings of threats to their lives. According to intelligence officials who spoke to the Guardian this year, India had also ordered the assassination of dozens of individuals in Pakistan, including Sikhs, as part of a wider strategy to eliminate terrorists living on foreign soil. and whats wrong if there is? US UK can willy nilly eliminate terrorists in the mIddle east etc as a threat to national security- why cant Indian agencies do the same if Canada and US is openly protecting militants. They just have to be like Mossad and not get caught and not leave any evidence coffee_rules 1
zen Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 11 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: It is impossible to prove this kind of involvement conclusively. My best guess. Maybe Indian govt might have used CIA tactic of leveraging fissures and conflicts. And I can see that Canada also believes this is case. But there are beliefs and then there are evidences. Yeah, it could be challenging to prove but let’s see what evidence is used esp. if it goes to trial.
ravishingravi Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 23 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said: and whats wrong if there is? US UK can willy nilly eliminate terrorists in the mIddle east etc as a threat to national security- why cant Indian agencies do the same if Canada and US is openly protecting militants. They just have to be like Mossad and not get caught and not leave any evidence There is nothing wrong at all. coffee_rules and Mariyam 1 1
zen Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 (edited) 48 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said: and whats wrong if there is? US UK can willy nilly eliminate terrorists in the mIddle east etc as a threat to national security- why cant Indian agencies do the same if Canada and US is openly protecting militants. They just have to be like Mossad and not get caught and not leave any evidence The issue is that India is not a global force when it comes to geopolitics. The US, UK, Canada, France, etc. (in some combination) participate in conflicts globally - the two World Wars, the Cold War, the Korean War, the Middle East, Russia-Ukraine, etc. Wherever there is a crisis, we may also see refugees going to these countries. India has no such major history (apart from its involvement in the subcon). It also tends to remain non-aligned. India shelters people from other countries such as Tibet, etc. If Chinese kill a Tibetan in India, India is likely to raise an issue esp. if it has any type of information on it (including coming in from CIA to watch out for such). On the other hand, Chinese may feel they have a right to do so as others (CIA) do it too (but others including India would see it as Chinese agents acting on foreign soil). I am not sure how threatening these Khalistanis were. They appear to be keeping Khalistan alive to earn money through donations and maybe to get some position in local Gurudwaras (as I have seen a Khalistan board at a major one). This may have been a test project to see if India can pull such a thing off and it has probably faltered. And if so, an ill advised move. Edited October 16, 2024 by zen
Chaos Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 (edited) @zen how r state of affairs at BD today? Edited October 16, 2024 by Chaos zen 1
Mariyam Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 3 hours ago, Vicks57 said: US has just requested India to take Canada's allegations seriously. US will back Canada. We are left all alone in this *ed situation. For the love of God, BJP should replace Modi-Shah with some other duo. You seem to be in an all fire hurry to declare a *result* for what is a developing situation. India can take anything seriously only after the Canadian government provides some proof to India or the wider world of Indian involvement. In more than a year, they haven’t been able to furnish any proof. Accusation by a western person is an accusation, not conclusive evidence. Those days of the 1900s are long behind. India has taken the situation as seriously as the case merits. Most of the times, there are ‘leaks’ to the media where in proof supporting a claim are released. The fact that Canada has been all talk no proof so far shows us that they are just playing to the domestic galley. Trudeau’s last hurrah. To give you an example, India sent proof to Pakistan ( and a few other nations) 4 days after the 26-11 attacks. And a detailed dossier within a month. Canada stands to lose here. We are their top 10 trading partner. They aren’t even a top 30 trading partner for India. We really don’t lose as much. And in the long run, we would develop/find alternatives faster. Lord and coffee_rules 1 1
Mariyam Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 Just now, Vicks57 said: 2008 Mumbai attacks is a terror attack. Close to 200 people died. This is different. Usually all these details regarding Nijjar assassination should be shared in private. But Canada has shared all these info in public which means they don't respect the consequences of this exposure. They just don't respect India like that by their actions. They have made allegations in public. Not shared any info as you claim. This is why they haven’t filed a case with the ICJ. The judge(s) would just quash the case and ask the petitioners to take a hike. Normally, if you have evidence and justice dispensation is your priority, you share the evidence and drag the ‘perp’ to the court. Not keep alleging the same inanities for over a year. Also, why should India (or any other sovereign nation) care about respect from Canada? Means nothing to anyone. Let’s forget for a moment that we are Indians. A country has accused another country of targeted killings for a year, and has failed to provide a shred of evidence. Further more it asks the accused country to remove diplomatic immunity, before it shares any evidence?? How does this make any sense? Let me give you an example from recent memory: A Saudi journalist was butchered inside the Saudi embassy in Turkey. The Turkish government sent some proof to both the Saudi and US (he was a dual citizen) and asked for removal of diplomatic immunity of a couple of embassy staffers. The Saudis did exactly what India has here, and that too after some ‘proof’ was furnished. The current Canadian government did not leave India a choice. coffee_rules 1
ravishingravi Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 1 hour ago, Vicks57 said: Is Ajith Doval really competent? Uncle needs to retire at this point and let some youngsters take over. Seems like we have honhar candidate here. If only Doval understood the joys of working in a fact free zone. mishra 1
coffee_rules Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Mariyam said: They have made allegations in public. Not shared any info as you claim. This is why they haven’t filed a case with the ICJ. The judge(s) would just quash the case and ask the petitioners to take a hike. Normally, if you have evidence and justice dispensation is your priority, you share the evidence and drag the ‘perp’ to the court. Not keep alleging the same inanities for over a year. Also, why should India (or any other sovereign nation) care about respect from Canada? Means nothing to anyone. Let’s forget for a moment that we are Indians. A country has accused another country of targeted killings for a year, and has failed to provide a shred of evidence. Further more it asks the accused country to remove diplomatic immunity, before it shares any evidence?? How does this make any sense? Let me give you an example from recent memory: A Saudi journalist was butchered inside the Saudi embassy in Turkey. The Turkish government sent some proof to both the Saudi and US (he was a dual citizen) and asked for removal of diplomatic immunity of a couple of embassy staffers. The Saudis did exactly what India has here, and that too after some ‘proof’ was furnished. The current Canadian government did not leave India a choice. Exactly, they said the same in 2023, India called their bluff and asked for proof. This whole thing is a personal row for Trudeau whose ego was hurt in 2019 when he visited India mostly for his political reasons and nobody cared here. Also G20 happened and Trudeau was sidelined and there were also allegations that his plane had drugs. He was held up in India for a few days with even the replacement plane got delayed. India didn’t make those drug allegations public but handled it diplomatically (which is leaked through press). This is a political battle for him as he is about lose his vote of confidence and government. He chose to get this diplomatic strife to distract people of his mess. West thinks they can make allegations and a poor country like India will take it lying down as if they are the Mai-baaps. India is too big now economically and Canada is getting poor. Canada has its economic problems with inflation and cost of living and it has become difficult to live there. They have growing unemployment and their inner cities are riddled with drug addicts and crime. This is a distraction for him to fool Canadian public. That letter from MEA is so scathing and called out his political ambitions clearly. They have no proof, even if they got Bishnoi gang to off Nijjar, they are foolish to leave traces leading back to them. It looks so stupid that they name L Bishnoi as evidence when he is supposedly murdering BJP siding politician Baba Siddiqi. The Canadians might have some tapes where the diplomatic staff might be rejoicing hearing Nijjar shot down and captured by US/CIA and they are dancing to US tunes. Trudeau’s evidence is -Trust me , bro!! This is the ground reality : Edited October 16, 2024 by coffee_rules Swag 1
mishra Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Vicks57 said: I am sure you are talking about Khashoggi. Khashoggi murder was a huge embarassment to Saudi govt and crown price. They outright murdered him and disposed of his body. Saudi conducted trials against its own citizens and jailed some. Eventually they were all released I believe. But prince took responsibility of the murder but denied involvement. Anyway, US and NATO is not to be messed with. God knows what all embarassment we are going to face in future on this canada problem. Why would we be embarrased? It will be similar to so called embarrasing question why Indian Democracy is dealing with Russia, buying oil and helping them economically invade Ukraine. We need to look at way we answered question over time. Initially,Answer was along line; "We are poor nations and we cant afford expensive energy while West can" and then We used to say "even you are buying it because you know expensive GAs will have impact on your citizens." Fast fwd a year: We removed bolded part "We are poor nations and we cant afford expensive energy while West can" and then We used to say "even you are buying it because you know expensive GAs will have impact on your citizens." Fast fwd to Now: We added another bolded part: "We are poor nations and we cant afford expensive energy while West can and we qualified it further by Saying, We will continue to buy Energy where ever we get it cheap and Nations should get used to this" Edited October 16, 2024 by mishra
ravishingravi Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 Too many khayali pulao posts on the thread. Vicks57 1
Muloghonto Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 5 hours ago, Vicks57 said: US has just requested India to take Canada's allegations seriously. US will back Canada. We are left all alone in this *ed situation. For the love of God, BJP should replace Modi-Shah with some other duo. we should replace the people with the greatest democratic mandate on the planet because....murrica doesnt like them and are backing their Canadian ally in their BS allegation ? That doesnt make sense. FYI,the mood in USA is turning.Here is a post on the matter,its rare to see such vitriol towards Canada from US think-tanks: https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/opinion-india-should-designate-canada-as-a-state-sponsor-of-terror-13825537.html
coffee_rules Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 7 hours ago, Texan said: https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/opinion-india-should-designate-canada-as-a-state-sponsor-of-terror-13825537.html Insightful article that exposes West hypocrisy. Minhas Merchant is a respected journalist, his views are pretty based.
Muloghonto Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 Just now, Vicks57 said: Modi-Shah should not be the face of BJP next elections. Their tenure is done and dusted. That's what I meant. And why is that ?Coz Murrica said something 'bad' ?Thats not an argument.
coffee_rules Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 3 minutes ago, Vicks57 said: Yes India has already requested some Bishnoi gang members. Nijjar assassination is different. Add Pannun to that. Nijjar is a drug peddling , gang member , masquerading as a plumber. He was involved in gang wars and was eliminated by rival gangs. His Khalistan Tiger force is a front for dealing arms. He entered Kameda illegally and was deported. His asylum went through muliple phases , is a low-cost criminal. After his death, Trudeau gave him a respected citizen award or some such BS. Pammu os a leech having a dual citizenship is a cheap Khalistani supporter. He is most likely a CIA asset to give information on drug/arms related gang. So, USA is protecting him naming Doval as the chief conspirator to eliminate him. He has threatened to blow up planes and kill Hindus in Kaneda. I wonder how that will fly with the hypocritical five-eyes! He is one to be eliminated, survived an accident attempt.
Muloghonto Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 Just now, Vicks57 said: Because Modi crosses 75 and his administration has failed in multiple aspects. that is for voters to decide on the voting day whether he's failed or not. Just now, Vicks57 said: The way he handled farm laws without asking opinion from farmer union triggered khalistan sentiments and led to the rise of Amrit Pal Singh. Govt. is not required to ask opinions of farmers unions and no government ever has - not Indian, American or French in the last 5 years,despite far bigger protests in France. Just now, Vicks57 said: His repeated failure to deport Bangladeshi migrants is another failure. They live with Indian Aadhar cards in India. His failure in Manipur is even more glaring. Meiteis are getting bullied with drones by kuki militants. He does absolutely nothing. Has he even visited Manipur? Not to mention Arunachal Pradesh is part of China map now and they have occupied a good part of the territory. AP has always been part of Chinese maps since 1950s. EIther way,your post re: modi + shah resignation was implied on THIS gang murder issue that Canada is saying involves India. With zero proof.And that is sufficient for you to say Doval/Modi etc failed ? Nice licking the whiteman's boot G_B_ 1
zen Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 (edited) UK comments on the issue: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/16/uk-india-cooperation-canada-legal-process Edited October 16, 2024 by zen
Muloghonto Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 Just now, Vicks57 said: Resignation during this time looks weak and why would I want India to look weak? He crosses the age bar in this tenure as PM and he has failed in multiple aspects. After this tenure, Modi and shah hopefully disappear from politics and forced to retire by BJP. where is this age-bar available ? Why would we want the two most successful politicians in indian history to disappear ? You said modi-shah-doval effed this up royally. Explain how they effed up, when there is zero shred of evidence from anyone on this matter ? Or are we now in the business of taking random shady foreign nations at their word over our leaders ?
Muloghonto Posted October 16, 2024 Posted October 16, 2024 1 minute ago, Vicks57 said: BJP passed this age law internally to sideline older politicians within their party. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindu.com/news/national/aap-is-a-thought-pm-modi-cannot-finish-us-kejriwal/article68164273.ece/amp/ I fail to see where this is a rule in BJP internal memos and circulars. Can you provide a link from BJP that says this age bar exists ? You havent answered my question as to why are you saying modi-shah-doval effed up while the accuser presents zero evidence ?
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