coffee_rules Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: The Arabs were invaders in 700 AD. 1200 years of history passed before Jewish migration to Israel started . You can't right supposed wrongs from that long ago and justify it morally . Also , Israelites were pretty much Arabs - Jesus spoke Aramaic which is pretty much as close to Arabic as one gets. The entire Arabian peninsula had polytheists , Jews, Manichaens, Nestorian Christians etc. during the 7th century before the Arab empire emerged . There is no such sharp distinction as you're implying . There were back and forth invasions between Persians and the Byzantines and Israel was always under one of them or a tributary to them . Then it came under the control of the Arab empire which was actually closer to the Israelites in culture and traditions than the Byzantines or the Persians. I had a post earlier. How far do we go back to settle original inabitatntce? Jewish right to the land is not just from scriptures, but from recorded history as well. Eqyptians banishing Jews to the this area is recorded as well as Arabs fighting out all the tribes (considered pagan) in Arabia is history as well. I agree that Jewish state was forced on Arabs, but why would they keep attacking Jews after 75 years on. It is a religious war more than the rights of people. We can never see the area in peace in our lifetimes. Like the Kashmir issue. Azarbaijan and Armenia are fighting for terrirory since 150 years baased on an ethnic strife. randomGuy, bharathh, ravishingravi and 4 others 1 6
mishra Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 42 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: I had a post earlier. How far do we go back to settle original inabitatntce? Jewish right to the land is not just from scriptures, but from recorded history as well. Eqyptians banishing Jews to the this area is recorded as well as Arabs fighting out all the tribes (considered pagan) in Arabia is history as well. I agree that Jewish state was forced on Arabs, but why would they keep attacking Jews after 75 years on. It is a religious war more than the rights of people. We can never see the area in peace in our lifetimes. Like the Kashmir issue. Azarbaijan and Armenia are fighting for terrirory since 150 years baased on an ethnic strife. New world started after world war II. And maps are getting redrawn in every part of world. If there are so many Islamic nations, I dont understand why just one Jewish Nation can't exist coffee_rules 1
ravishingravi Posted October 13, 2023 Author Posted October 13, 2023 49 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: I had a post earlier. How far do we go back to settle original inabitatntce? Jewish right to the land is not just from scriptures, but from recorded history as well. Eqyptians banishing Jews to the this area is recorded as well as Arabs fighting out all the tribes (considered pagan) in Arabia is history as well. I agree that Jewish state was forced on Arabs, but why would they keep attacking Jews after 75 years on. It is a religious war more than the rights of people. We can never see the area in peace in our lifetimes. Like the Kashmir issue. Azarbaijan and Armenia are fighting for terrirory since 150 years baased on an ethnic strife. I can totally understand and contextualize everything for Israel. I just cannot explain the settlers. BacktoCricaddict and coffee_rules 2
coffee_rules Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 41 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: I can totally understand and contextualize everything for Israel. I just cannot explain the settlers. Arabs live beyong the Green line in Israel as Israel citizens. After the six-day war which Israel won and occupied the land in WB, Golan Heights, gaza and Sinai Penunsula, they became the dominant force and negotiated the return of land. The won the attackers' land in war. It's like when India marched till outskirts of Lahore as hey did in 1971 and wouldn't give the land back to Pakistan. It is a military policy and the whole world opposes it. UK has land in Argentina, Caribbean, French have in SA, Africa, the world is a complex place. East Timor got its independence from Indonesia was a Portuguese settlement. Settlers are all over the WB , Palestine have very little left as theirs. That's cost of losing the war and maintaining peace as per Oslo accords. IMO. Israel should give back the ground they settled in, but the logistics are impossible and also the bone of contention for long-term peace.
BacktoCricaddict Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, ravishingravi said: I can totally understand and contextualize everything for Israel. I just cannot explain the settlers. ABB - Another British Botch-up
putrevus Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 4 hours ago, randomGuy said: Also following 2 factors 1. Might is right. Jews are stronger militarily, economically, more resourceful, intelligent. Palestinian have to compromise against their mightier opponent, take whatever is offered. They lost in wars. 2. Jews have the moral authority in this situation. A Muslim can and does live safely in Israel whereas a Jew can not live in places like Gaza, Pakistan, Iran etc. Some people supporting Palestinian cause, imagine being a jew and living in any middle eastern country. How is a muslim living in Israel, as a citizen of Israel .
gattaca Posted October 13, 2023 Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, putrevus said: How is a muslim living in Israel, as a citizen of Israel . There are over 1.6 million in Israel Edited October 13, 2023 by gattaca
DeepSpace Posted October 14, 2023 Posted October 14, 2023 I do not like the Israel is going about this. They suffered a brutal attack but if they commit mass scale genocide in Gaza, they will may just be lowering themselves to the level of these Hamas barbaric thugs. Lord 1
ravishingravi Posted October 14, 2023 Author Posted October 14, 2023 3 hours ago, DeepSpace said: I do not like the Israel is going about this. They suffered a brutal attack but if they commit mass scale genocide in Gaza, they will may just be lowering themselves to the level of these Hamas barbaric thugs. What should they do according to you ?
mishra Posted October 14, 2023 Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, putrevus said: How is a muslim living in Israel, as a citizen of Israel . Its Jewish state. Muslim are allowed to live and work there. In Gaza, Muslims will run over a car on Jew child and crowd including kids and women will cheer it. I don’t understand how a sane person can defend such barbarism ingrained in whole society in modern world Edited October 14, 2023 by mishra ravishingravi, coffee_rules and randomGuy 1 2
ravishingravi Posted October 14, 2023 Author Posted October 14, 2023 I hope Israel doesn't do anything for one month. The anger has to go out of the system. Revenge has to be cold. Or else the damage will be enormous. Not to mention they are walking targets.
coffee_rules Posted October 14, 2023 Posted October 14, 2023 20 hours ago, putrevus said: How is a muslim living in Israel, as a citizen of Israel . He means an Arab. , there are two mil of them
Vijy Posted October 14, 2023 Posted October 14, 2023 8 hours ago, ravishingravi said: I hope Israel doesn't do anything for one month. The anger has to go out of the system. Revenge has to be cold. Or else the damage will be enormous. Not to mention they are walking targets. I think they are going to keep pushing and escalating it, since the anger is red hot now
ravishingravi Posted October 14, 2023 Author Posted October 14, 2023 34 minutes ago, Vijy said: I think they are going to keep pushing and escalating it, since the anger is red hot now Sure. But just going through the war gaming. This is an insane situation. It's not like they have not done it before. But situation is different now. Plus they could leave themselves open to attack on others fronts.
DeepSpace Posted October 14, 2023 Posted October 14, 2023 17 hours ago, ravishingravi said: What should they do according to you ? I wish there was an answer. Israel now wants to eradicate Hamas terrorists for good and for adequate reasons. However, given the population density of Gaza and the fact the residents really cannot flee anywhere (whole Gaza is sealed from Israel and Egypt) and it basically like a open air prison, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians will die, in some cases by starvation, lack of medical care, etc. I see parallels of 9/11 here. 3000 Americans died, but then Bush and his war criminal gangs took the excuse to annihilate Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11. Perhaps the US case was more egregious. The fact we call us humans an intelligent species is beyond ludicrous. BacktoCricaddict 1
Vijy Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 27 minutes ago, DeepSpace said: I wish there was an answer. Israel now wants to eradicate Hamas terrorists for good and for adequate reasons. However, given the population density of Gaza and the fact the residents really cannot flee anywhere (whole Gaza is sealed from Israel and Egypt) and it basically like a open air prison, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians will die, in some cases by starvation, lack of medical care, etc. I see parallels of 9/11 here. 3000 Americans died, but then Bush and his war criminal gangs took the excuse to annihilate Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11. Perhaps the US case was more egregious. The fact we call us humans an intelligent species is beyond ludicrous. Well, Uncle Sam has to be the best at everything... can't allow the others to be more egregious now, can they? :P ravishingravi 1
bsriharsha Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 US will allow Israel their revenge. Bomb Gaza to dust and then ask them to pack their bags up. You can't eradicate Hamas. This is simply sending a message.
cowboysfan Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 Israel may to trying to create a buffer zone in the north of the strip by moving all the Palestinians in gaza city to the south,the problem is that not all can move,if Israel does a ground attack they will most likely be shooting at civilian population.
ravishingravi Posted October 15, 2023 Author Posted October 15, 2023 6 hours ago, DeepSpace said: I wish there was an answer. Israel now wants to eradicate Hamas terrorists for good and for adequate reasons. However, given the population density of Gaza and the fact the residents really cannot flee anywhere (whole Gaza is sealed from Israel and Egypt) and it basically like a open air prison, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians will die, in some cases by starvation, lack of medical care, etc. I see parallels of 9/11 here. 3000 Americans died, but then Bush and his war criminal gangs took the excuse to annihilate Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11. Perhaps the US case was more egregious. The fact we call us humans an intelligent species is beyond ludicrous. Only difference between 9/11 and this one is that imagine terrorists who did or supported 9/11 hid in new jersey using the families as a cover. Would US still not retalitate ? Towns in Israel within 1 km of Gaza. How will the habitants ever be able to live there knowing that Hamas is next door ? This is really an impossible situation and it's only game theoretic to attack now.
gattaca Posted October 15, 2023 Posted October 15, 2023 Palestinians get millions of dollars of aid if only they used to grow themselves instead of investing in to bad activities and being jealous of Israel they would be in much better position.
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