Ravi Shastri on Shaheen Afridi

[Sharjah-Harjah]

4 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Kohli still has centuries in NZ and England (multiple)

Plus has great record in SA and Aus.

 

Shaheen has ZERO 5-fers in SENA. He has ZERO 5-fers against SENA at home too. Just statpadding.

 

Shaheen's entire test career is a flaw lol.

Shamelessly comparing a 23 year old with a 34 year old. “Entire career” as if it spans decades.

Comparing Shaheen with Wasim Akram and Kohli, then saying he is not all that .

the irony is unmistakable here 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

3 hours ago, deathmonger said:

I'll explain the Pakistani mindset of hyping up Babar and Shaheen.

 

Shaheen averages 36.40 in test cricket against SENA with ZERO 5-fers (who are the good test teams, doesn't play India). Siraj, Bhuvi, Umesh etc all have at least one 5-fer against SENA. Bumrah, Shami, Ishant etc have lots.

 

Babar averages 36.33 in test cricket outside Asia with 1 century (Ravi Ashwin has two).

 

Thing is Pakistan as a country really doesn't have anything going for it.

 

Their economy is down with same per capita income (in $ terms) as 2013. Their former part, Bangladesh has grown richer than them and in all metrics.

 

Doesn't really have an entertainment industry. Just consumes Indian TV, movies and music.

 

Their hockey team is dead. Doesn't even qualify for Olympics/World Cups.

 

Other sports they are non-starters. No medals in Olympics since 92. Single digit Olympic contingent, mostly wildcard entries. Forget Olympics, they don't even win at Asiad level, which is way less competitive. Got less medals this time than war-torn Afghanistan and Sri Lanka (who have both medaled at the Olympics in the last 30 years). Women's sports is a no go. The few female athletes have to compete in hijab and full sleeve clothes.

 

So the only thing they are somewhat ok at is men's cricket - so they hype it up cause they have nothing else left. So Babar and Shaheen get overrated beyond what they are - a Yousuf Youhana level batsman (good ODI batsman, FTB test batsman) and an Umar Gul level bowler (great T20 bowler, decent ODI bowler, mediocre test bowler).

 

And in between the general downfall of their country, they see what is going across the border and see us growing in every field. And that stings them. And many Pakistanis have admitted as much.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/osman-samiuddin-meekened-pakistan-still-waiting-to-prick-india-s-bubble-830669

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/14/india.features116

https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/why-my-father-hated-india-the-son-of-assassinated-pakistani-leader.23528/

 

So it was not enough to just have good players, they had to be better than India. Therefore Babar had to be better than Kohli. Shaheen had to be the best fast bowler on the planet because if India has better fast bowling - what is Pakistan left with? That's why their hesitance to rate Bumrah who has a better test bowling average than Wasim, Waqar, Imran and is the only Asian fast bowler to have match winning five wicket hauls in South Africa, England, Australia and West Indies.

 

And thus they overhype. And when reality hits them in the face, they can't take it.

 

Many more reality checks await over the years, and not just cricket.

 

 

This feels like a hate post. Didn’t read beyond 2 lines 

[Mariyam]

4 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

This feels like a hate post.

Didn’t read beyond 2 lines 

^^This doesn't feel like a hate post. But I still didn't read beyond 2 lines.

[Sharjah-Harjah]

3 hours ago, Nash said:

SSA is a good bowler and he proved it many time that he is dangerous but the same thing goes for Bhuvi and many other bowlers. Pakistani formal players are hyping him as he is next coming of Akram is the problem here. SSA has good height and he is left arm. He can bowl 140K +. He can inswing and outswing both. he has good yorkers. These are good sign and he can steam roll any below average batsman. But a world class batsman can overcome his burst like how Kohli did sevral times. He has no way to come back like Bumrah or stark. he lacks reverse swing. 

He can improve a lot but in current situation, he is just a good bowler.

A very reasonable post. He’s just 23 btw and was in the same U19 tournament as Gill.
He’s being compared with Strac, Bumrah, and in some cases, Wasim Akram… 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

3 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

^^This doesn't feel like a hate post. But I still didn't read beyond 2 lines.

Lol Player of the year awards are being given by the ICC. This poster is saying Pakistan is hyping them up. 

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Shamelessly comparing a 23 year old with a 34 year old. “Entire career” as if it spans decades.

Comparing Shaheen with Wasim Akram and Kohli, then saying he is not all that .

the irony is unmistakable here 

Kohli had a century in his first series in Aus, NZ and SA.

 

Bumrah had a 5-fer in his first series in SA, Aus, Eng.

 

Shaheen has had 1 series in all four of SENA.

[Sharjah-Harjah]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

Kohli had a century in his first series in Aus, NZ and SA.

 

Bumrah had a 5-fer in his first series in SA, Aus, Eng.

 

Shaheen has had 1 series in all four of SENA.

So what? Bumrah is the greatest fast bowler India has ever produced. But even he has had some mediocre tournaments and series, and he’s gone missing whenever India needed him the most. 

 

As for Shaheen and Naseem. Both are young and have a long way to develop. Currently, in 1.5B Indians, I doubt there is even 1 Indian fast bowler who comes close in terms of talent and potential. A fully fit and in form Shaheen is a nightmare as India has already experienced twice. Another day is not too far away. Bookmark this post. 

[deathmonger]

27 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

So what? Bumrah is the greatest fast bowler India has ever produced. But even he has had some mediocre tournaments and series, and he’s gone missing whenever India needed him the most. 

 

As for Shaheen and Naseem. Both are young and have a long way to develop. Currently, in 1.5B Indians, I doubt there is even 1 Indian fast bowler who comes close in terms of talent and potential. A fully fit and in form Shaheen is a nightmare as India has already experienced twice. Another day is not too far away. Bookmark this post. 

Bumrah has won India series in Australia twice, which no Pakistan team has ever done. That was when he was "needed most". Remember, test cricket is older than the country of Pakistan itself.

 

"talent" "potential" lol. I'll take results. Naseem/Shaheen have not even won Asia Cups, let alone anything bigger lol.

 

A fully fit and in form Shaheen basically took a couple of top order wickets and made Pakistan win a group stage T20 against India, which is what Arshdeep replicated in a year's time lol. I mean Pakistan's favourite player Irfan Pathan did that in 2007 and then repeated that in the final to win MoM and the trophy, not get carted around for three sixes by Wade to get knocked out in the semis itself.

 

His second good performance was on a seaming up and down pitch (where India even managed to get to 266) where Pakistan would have been all out for 150 (Pak made 128 and 191 on far friendlier surfaces). Ind bowled SL out for 50 in the final in helpful conditions.

 

Apart from those 2 games, in the 4 other games he has played, he has been smashed. Bhuvi Kumar has more good performances against Pak than Shaheen has against India. Heck, Hardik has - in bowling.

 

Shaheen bowling average against India - 7 wkts at 27.42 in ODIs, 3 wkts at 21.66 in T20Is

 

Hardik against Pak - 8 wkts at 26.87 in ODIs, 11 wkts at 12.00 in T20Is

Bhuvi - 14 wkts at 23.57 in ODIs, 11 wkts at 17.18 in T20Is

Arshdeep - 6 wkts at 15.33 in T20Is

 

btw Pak's records against India in matches involving Shaheen - W1 L4

 

Because Pakistan lose so much against India, when they perform well once in a while - the performances are more highlighted in the mind of the Pakistani fan. While Indian player's performance against Pak is the norm.

 

 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

3 hours ago, deathmonger said:

Bumrah has won India series in Australia twice, which no Pakistan team has ever done. That was when he was "needed most". Remember, test cricket is older than the country of Pakistan itself.

 

"talent" "potential" lol. I'll take results. Naseem/Shaheen have not even won Asia Cups, let alone anything bigger lol.

 

A fully fit and in form Shaheen basically took a couple of top order wickets and made Pakistan win a group stage T20 against India, which is what Arshdeep replicated in a year's time lol. I mean Pakistan's favourite player Irfan Pathan did that in 2007 and then repeated that in the final to win MoM and the trophy, not get carted around for three sixes by Wade to get knocked out in the semis itself.

 

His second good performance was on a seaming up and down pitch (where India even managed to get to 266) where Pakistan would have been all out for 150 (Pak made 128 and 191 on far friendlier surfaces). Ind bowled SL out for 50 in the final in helpful conditions.

 

Apart from those 2 games, in the 4 other games he has played, he has been smashed. Bhuvi Kumar has more good performances against Pak than Shaheen has against India. Heck, Hardik has - in bowling.

 

Shaheen bowling average against India - 7 wkts at 27.42 in ODIs, 3 wkts at 21.66 in T20Is

 

Hardik against Pak - 8 wkts at 26.87 in ODIs, 11 wkts at 12.00 in T20Is

Bhuvi - 14 wkts at 23.57 in ODIs, 11 wkts at 17.18 in T20Is

Arshdeep - 6 wkts at 15.33 in T20Is

 

btw Pak's records against India in matches involving Shaheen - W1 L4

 

Because Pakistan lose so much against India, when they perform well once in a while - the performances are more highlighted in the mind of the Pakistani fan. While Indian player's performance against Pak is the norm.

 

 

Doesn’t matter. Meaningless stats. 
Currently Shaheen is not fully fit. 

Based on capability, pedigree and potential, Shaheen and Naseem will end up as GOATs when they hang their boots. Gill, Kishan and Rahul will have their days on flat tracks. But on most days, prepare for a decade of humiliation. 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Doesn’t matter. Meaningless stats. 
Currently Shaheen is not fully fit. 

Based on capability, pedigree and potential, Shaheen and Naseem will end up as GOATs when they hang their boots. Gill, Kishan and Rahul will have their days on flat tracks. But on most days, prepare for a decade of humiliation. 

That's a very big call and to be honest , there's no evidence that they'll end up as ATGs. , especially Naseem .

 

Pakistan won't even play enough Tests for them to reach that category so there that. 

 

Also , after Waqar you haven't produced a single bowler who is even in the conversation to be an ATG

 

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

So what? Bumrah is the greatest fast bowler India has ever produced. But even he has had some mediocre tournaments and series, and he’s gone missing whenever India needed him the most. 

 

As for Shaheen and Naseem. Both are young and have a long way to develop. Currently, in 1.5B Indians, I doubt there is even 1 Indian fast bowler who comes close in terms of talent and potential. A fully fit and in form Shaheen is a nightmare as India has already experienced twice. Another day is not too far away. Bookmark this post. 

How do you measure talent and potential ?? & how many bowlers you have seen in India to conclude the same.

 

I have done this debate with another Pakistani poster as well in past, don't want to drag it. But India has plethora of fast bowlers who can move the bowl at 145+ k and then can reverse as well, just because our top level isn't deprived of resources..they are still in domestics.

 

And when Bumrah went "missing", he had only 1 year of international experience..unlike some from Pakistan who are playing international cricket for 4-5 years. Infact experienced bowlers like Waqar & Akram too went missing in World Cups vs India (Waqar was a repeated offender vs India). 

Edited October 18, 2023 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Doesn’t matter. Meaningless stats. 
Currently Shaheen is not fully fit. 

Based on capability, pedigree and potential, Shaheen and Naseem will end up as GOATs when they hang their boots. Gill, Kishan and Rahul will have their days on flat tracks. But on most days, prepare for a decade of humiliation. 

If these are GOAT's as per Pakistan, they I must say Pakistan has minnow level standards for their GOAT.

No one calls Rahul or Kishan as best for India, they might be the superstars as per Pakistani standards.

 

For India, apart from Gill, next gen superstar is Yashasvi..once he is in the setup all your Naseem's and Shaheen's will run away mid of the match with an excuse of injury.

So I would say, this was the good time of Pakistan..these last few years. Now all you will get is tears and broken TV's.

[Sharjah-Harjah]

35 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

How do you measure talent and potential ?? & how many bowlers you have seen in India to conclude the same.

 

I have done this debate with another Pakistani poster as well in past, don't want to drag it. But India has plethora of fast bowlers who can move the bowl at 145+ k and then can reverse as well, just because our top level isn't deprived of resources..they are still in domestics.

 

And when Bumrah went "missing", he had only 1 year of international experience..unlike some from Pakistan who are playing international cricket for 4-5 years. Infact experienced bowlers like Waqar & Akram too went missing in World Cups vs India (Waqar was a repeated offender vs India). 

Talent cannot be measured. Naseem Shah is nearly the perfect fast bowler. 

One shouldn’t even be talking about cricket if they can’t see it. 

[Sharjah-Harjah]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

If these are GOAT's as per Pakistan, they I must say Pakistan has minnow level standards for their GOAT.

No one calls Rahul or Kishan as best for India, they might be the superstars as per Pakistani standards.

 

For India, apart from Gill, next gen superstar is Yashasvi..once he is in the setup all your Naseem's and Shaheen's will run away mid of the match with an excuse of injury.

So I would say, this was the good time of Pakistan..these last few years. Now all you will get is tears and broken TV's.

Gill is definitely a very special talent. A GOAT in the making. I don’t know who Yashasvi is.

So far, Gill and Rohit both looked uncomfortable against Naseem Shah’s opening spells in both games. But Gill get hold of him at some point as well. 
 

As for Ravi Shastri and his comments. The old man is salty because that spell in 2021 WC bamboozeled India and effectively ended Ravi’s stint with India. A couple of average days in the office for Shaheen and he quickly pounced on the opportunity to make things even. 
A real pundit knows that no player performers day in and out, every game, every series. Every player has ups and downs. 

[singhvivek141]

17 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Talent cannot be measured. Naseem Shah is nearly the perfect fast bowler. 

One shouldn’t even be talking about cricket if they can’t see it. 

Yeah, and Umar Akmal was the best batting talent on earth.

When you can't measure talent how did you conclude that India don't have any bowler of calibre like yours ?

 

Bowling wide on off stump under favourable conditions isn't something as near perfect bowler. I told on that match day as well, wickets matter which Naseem didn't took.

[singhvivek141]

22 minutes ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Gill is definitely a very special talent. A GOAT in the making. I don’t know who Yashasvi is.

So far, Gill and Rohit both looked uncomfortable against Naseem Shah’s opening spells in both games. But Gill get hold of him at some point as well. 
 

As for Ravi Shastri and his comments. The old man is salty because that spell in 2021 WC bamboozeled India and effectively ended Ravi’s stint with India. A couple of average days in the office for Shaheen and he quickly pounced on the opportunity to make things even. 
A real pundit knows that no player performers day in and out, every game, every series. Every player has ups and downs. 

When situations are favourable, even Colin De Grandhomme becomes unplayable.

A bowler need to have multiple skills in his repertoire...one can't rely on just swing with new ball.

 

Naseem became toothless when ball stopped moving, so in ODI's you have to respect the condition and pounce on when the scales are in your favour. Any one with a basic understanding of cricket will understand that plays and misses are normal when ball is swinging miles.

 

Yashasvi is from U-19 2020 batch, played against WestIndies and was also part of Asian Games team which won gold. Proper combination of technique & power.

Edited October 18, 2023 by singhvivek141

[Norman]

Hahahaha fukking love bewda for this!! 

 

Also I heard that a few of our players straight up said In the interviews that Babar and Rizwan played like * phati cowards in the middle overs

 

 

Total ownage!!! Aukaat dikha di match mein aur match ke baad bhi ...

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

So what? Bumrah is the greatest fast bowler India has ever produced. But even he has had some mediocre tournaments and series, and he’s gone missing whenever India needed him the most. 

 

As for Shaheen and Naseem. Both are young and have a long way to develop. Currently, in 1.5B Indians, I doubt there is even 1 Indian fast bowler who comes close in terms of talent and potential. A fully fit and in form Shaheen is a nightmare as India has already experienced twice. Another day is not too far away. Bookmark this post. 

Will take another 10 years to hit 1.5 billion.

 

[Sean Bradley]

Shaheen hasnt been the same ever since he mocked Indian batters on the field, Rohit, KL etc. Hes going to suffer a massive wrath of rubbing Indian top order the wrong way. 

Naseem Shah is good and has a bright future, but they said the same about Hasan Ali who has regressed massively.  

[deathmonger]

8 hours ago, Sharjah-Harjah said:

Doesn’t matter. Meaningless stats. 
Currently Shaheen is not fully fit. 

Based on capability, pedigree and potential, Shaheen and Naseem will end up as GOATs when they hang their boots. Gill, Kishan and Rahul will have their days on flat tracks. But on most days, prepare for a decade of humiliation. 

Haha, hit the wound.

 

"Not fully fit" lol. That's his level. Like Gul, Junaid, Amir etc etc

 

"Decade of humiliation" - THIS. THIS is the essence of everything. Pakistan is a young country. For most Pakistanis, their earliest memories are the 07 final and the 11 semi that lead to trauma at a young age. After that they have seen India dominate them for most of their cricket watching life (around 10-15 years).

 

So Pakistanis desperately want the reverse to happen.

 

It won't. Pakistan being better than India was an aberration. India being better is the norm.

 

Cricket was not a particularly professional sport in the 80s-90s. Plus India was slightly poorer than Pakistan. In a system like this, you relied more on diamonds in the rough rather than a refined system.

 

In the current day and age of nutrition, matchups, analytics, neutral umpires etc the richest boards will always win - simply because they have more money to put in. That's why West Indies and Pakistan have declined. India, England are way better than their 80s-90s teams and Australia too started getting real good around the 00s and still have a very good team.

 

The raw talent still keeps coming through like old times with Pakistan and West Indies - Gul, Amir, Shaheen, Umar Akmal, Alzarri etc. But to refine them into finished things is simply not in the poorer country's hands.

 

How many Pakistani players have come back after bad form or made the jump like Jaddu in 2013, Rohit in 2013, Kuldeep last year, Bumrah in 2018, Pant in 2021, Kohli in 2012 etc?

 

Pakistani players come in - have a good start, their fans hype them, few poor years and then dropped. Gul, Junaid, Amir, Jamshed, Sharjeel, Hasan, Wahab etc etc. The issue is systemic.

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by deathmonger