Will we ever achieve the same winning mentality as Australia?

[harpicP]

3 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

NEVER.

 

People complaining about pitch don't have idea that even with 300+, Aussie would have made it tough for us. We aren't match for Aussie when it comes to KOs. They spanked the home team like anything which was unbeaten throughout the tournament. Can India do that to Australia in Australia when they are on song, we couldnt even beat them in freakin warm up game in 2015 wc, lets just not talk about SF-Final . And now please don't bring tests series here, Aussie smacked us in WTC final at neutral venue and we got spanked by NZ in WTC final in the same year we won the test series in Australia. We can win few series here and there and name it as historic series win and celebrate it for hundred years but when it comes to trophy cabinet, India is as mediocre as it gets. We laugh at Pakistani brothers but they should laugh at us considering the population,craze and money is invested in cricket in India. 

Can't say I disgaree

[vvvslaxman]

Last 3 world cups. India is comfortably better than everyone else in terms of W/L ratio. But we are comfortably ahead in choking too. In 2015 Australia was not even the best team in their group.  They stepped up in crucial games collectively.  We froze in crucial games like a deer caught in headlights. 2015 i agree Australia in their home conditions were vastly superior side. No issue losing there. Not a choke. But 2019/2023 no excuse. NZ barely made it through to the semi final. We just had to see off 10 overs. We could have registered a 7 or 8 wicket win. 2023 is even more inexplicable. From pitch fiasco to team selection.

 

[vvvslaxman]

Team under MSD in these crucial games was always up for the challenge collectively. India was not even this good in bowling department.India needs a strong leader, structural change in order to taste world cup win. Players with multi skill has to emerge. In order to protect their body these guys don't step outside the comfort zone.  That pri madonna all rounder is injured more often. India must take punt with youngsters like Raj Bawa, Hangarkekar and other seaming all rounders. We have to move away from this Pandya.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

NEVER.

 

People complaining about pitch don't have idea that even with 300+, Aussie would have made it tough for us. We aren't match for Aussie when it comes to KOs. They spanked the home team like anything which was unbeaten throughout the tournament. Can India do that to Australia in Australia when they are on song, we couldnt even beat them in freakin warm up game in 2015 wc, lets just not talk about SF-Final . And now please don't bring tests series here, Aussie smacked us in WTC final at neutral venue and we got spanked by NZ in WTC final in the same year we won the test series in Australia. We can win few series here and there and name it as historic series win and celebrate it for hundred years but when it comes to trophy cabinet, India is as mediocre as it gets. We laugh at Pakistani brothers but they should laugh at us considering the population,craze and money is invested in cricket in India. 

 

I won't undermine Test series just because we choked in finals and semi finals. No correlation. Infact we were playing T20 players. We had no Bumrah, Kohli, Ashwin, Jadeja, We were all out for  36 runs. MWe made an impossible come back something that is never going to be possible ever. We can at some point fix our choking problem. I don't want to put down that epic series. India has won world cups before. We are not south africa or New zealand. These guys either choke or go with under-preparation like we went to WTC final straight after IPL.  These guys are mentally scarred. THey are carrying this into every match. Atleast we reached final after flunking in two semi finals. Hopefully with new guys we win it.  If we try the same guys over and over result is not going to be different. Sometimes an average side has better chance of winning a cup than team with so called "legends"

[Suhaan]

14 hours ago, Frustrated said:

They probably had to mess up with the pitch coz the earlier game (SF vs NZ on a flat wankhede pitch) gave Team Ind and the TM a lot of scare.   NZ were well in the game till the 32nd over of the chase.  That Williamson-Mitchell partnership literally sent shivers down the spine of most Indian fans.  All our bowlers had literally given up (except Shami).  And secondly coz a full strength Aussie side usually looks invincible on flat pitches.  I think this scorecard was fresh in their minds.  https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-india-2023-24-1389381/india-vs-australia-3rd-odi-1389390/match-report

Naa,given we batted first on a similar track and amassed 330+ in a final

Would have been over for Australia

This WC was a gift to this Australia,

This was humiliation,it was there to take like the CT17 for us

People should have resigned in the aftermath of things instead they are throwing tantrums

[vvvslaxman]

I liked the way how under-19 world cup was won in 2022. There is no real stand out guys. But  as a team they were fully prepared for any situation. Lot of batsmen could bowl. lot of bowelrs could bat. It was more like 1983 world cup team. No super stars. They just clincially disposed every opposition without any fuss.

[IndianRenegade]

13 hours ago, Frustrated said:

They probably had to mess up with the pitch coz the earlier game (SF vs NZ on a flat wankhede pitch) gave Team Ind and the TM a lot of scare.   NZ were well in the game till the 32nd over of the chase.  That Williamson-Mitchell partnership literally sent shivers down the spine of most Indian fans.  All our bowlers had literally given up (except Shami).  And secondly coz a full strength Aussie side usually looks invincible on flat pitches.  I think this scorecard was fresh in their minds.  https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-india-2023-24-1389381/india-vs-australia-3rd-odi-1389390/match-report

I don't think the NZ game had anything to do with it. if you followed the news carefully there was a leak before the nz game that the ICC pitch consultant Andy Atkinson had raised concerns about the final pitch. So the plan was underway even before a single ball was bowled in the semi final to mess with the finals game, we likely tried to repeat the pitch for chennai but failed miserably considering the dew & general nature of Ahmedabad pitch. 

[dilliboy]

9 hours ago, Chaos said:

We need to get this: aussies been playing serious cricket since 1800’s. They basically england who got seperated. We started winning anything serious since 1983… we came a long way in half a decade. Just give it time, as india gets richer and more development comes in, we will see better and stronger athletes!

We already have the richest sports board in the world for ages and have no dearth in talent pool. It's not a question about talent anymore, just pure unadulterated winning mentality, which we lack

[vvvslaxman]

47 minutes ago, dilliboy said:

We already have the richest sports board in the world for ages and have no dearth in talent pool. It's not a question about talent anymore, just pure unadulterated winning mentality, which we lack

 

I think this is applicable only for this current bunch. Also team selections, squad selections are influenced by external factors. A guy like SKY should have never played this world cup. He even played a Test match. I remember Rahul Dravid giving an excuse after SA failed LOI tour "We miss Hardik Pandya". You don't do that. Your team should not depend on individuals. We have won Test matches in Australia without key players. I am not talking about recent matches. In the adelaide test in 2004 we did not have Zaheer khan as he was out injured. India won their first ever Test series in Pakistan with 22 year old Balaji and 19 year old Irfan pathan. Rahul Dravid has this innate fear of being labelled as failed coach. Hence he resorts to these excuses, underhanded tactics rather than working with what he has.  Rahul Dravid should be embarrassed not to win this world cup with such a world class team. 

[harpicP]

8 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Dude, this is the most ridiculous argument ever.

 

Extreme expectations? Jamaica always had high expectations of Usain Bolt where he needs to win every tournament in running and win comprehensively (Record breaking performances). USA had same expectations of Michael Phelps in Swimming.

 

Or Argentina had the same for Messi.

 

And Norway with Magnus Carlsen. You think being #1 for 15 years doesn't hold expectations?

This joke of expectations of 1 billion people is getting old.

 

Sachin was not failing later in his life about billion people expectations. It was the 100th 100 which he shamelessly did against Bangladesh in a match we lost.

 

I am just so angry with fans like you who support mediocrity at the highest level.

 

India won 10 of those games because there's a real dearth in skill among the top 3-4 teams vs others.

 

That's a fact no one will deny.

 

Once they faced New Zealand and Australia this skill gap narrowed. When Mitchell and Williamson were batting until 32nd over India was losing even semi final. Shami took 7 wickets that game as other bowlers looked clueless.

 

The reality is margins are thin at the highest level. You need all your players to contribute whereever they can in the field, batting, bowling, strategy whatever.

 

With Rohit Sharma's pot belly and poor fielding of Siraj, Bumrah, Shami etc. does he really stand a chance against supremely fit athletes in terms of handling pressure and elevating the team?

Great stuff. Agree with the whole thing word to word.

 

Really pathetic excuse. 

 

No one follows indian hockey. Very little. They are ranked 3 but still choke in semis and finals.

 

What's the excuse there? Fitness? Skill? Bullshit.

Indisn men's hockey team is super fit, strong and mobile. They are mentally weak in ko against aus nedtherlands. 

 

Margins are thin. At the elite level,fighting spirit and mental toughness is what separates the best from the rest

 

We need more guys like pant sundar thakur( when fit) in the teamto win. 

 

Yuvraj was clutch gambo raina and Dhoni. We need such players to win titles. 

[harpicP]

2 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

Yet fans even on this board rate Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni etc. higher than Yuvraj in clutch performances hahaha this is the irony...

Shame on such fans.

 

Only players I back are clutch ones like rpant, sundar, jaiswal ( have a feeling he will go places) rinku and maybe Gill if played in middle order only. Like 3rd or 4th. 

 

Guys like Rahul sky and even kohli in tests and t20 should be thrown out. Rohit did good in odi wc so he gets a pass. 

 

[Adamant]

No, weak genes.

[Majestic]

Nowhere close.

[Number]

Not until population worships stat chasing losers and not match winners.

Yuvraj batted at 5 to accomodate Kohli in top order.

MS batted at 6 despite having played his best knocks at no. 3. 

That is how winner teams are made where seniors take up the most difficult positions and roles.

Unlike these Ro-Ko losers who won't move an inch from their best stat chasing positions. Make 500 centuries and win jack all. Indian population will do dckriding but whole world will know you are nothing but a PR driven loser.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Number

[harpicP]

3 hours ago, Adamant said:

No, weak genes.

Mentally weak? 

[Vilander]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:53 PM, BlueBlood said:

Yet fans even on this board rate Rohit, Kohli, Dhoni etc. higher than Yuvraj in clutch performances hahaha this is the irony...

people tend to learn eventually about players as they experience more. Yuvi and and Dhoni are shining through in comparison to their more accomplished counterparts now Kohli Rohit. 

[harpicP]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

people tend to learn eventually about players as they experience more. Yuvi and and Dhoni are shining through in comparison to their more accomplished counterparts now Kohli Rohit. 

Dhoni would never lose the WC at home. Never. Even 2019 we weren't losing that under Dhoni captaincy although Dhoni was past his sell date

  

2015 we had a weaker side so yes that's understandable. With the OP indian side  2023 we wouldn't have lost under Dhoni in his prime.

 

[BlueBlood]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

people tend to learn eventually about players as they experience more. Yuvi and and Dhoni are shining through in comparison to their more accomplished counterparts now Kohli Rohit. 

 

I don't think so. Look at Michael Bevan, Flintoff or even someone like Lance Klusenar or Aravinda De Silva.

 

People rarely remember them. I even remember Ian Bell being called mediocre but that guy performs when it truly mattered compared to Dravid for example.

 

Stat padders will keep ruling until people forget impact.

 

Pant for example will be forgotten in history if KL Rahul plays for another 7-10 years as a keeper batsman.

 

That's the reality whether you like it or not.

 

People only remember Yuvraj because of the 6 sixes. If not he too would have been forgotten.

 

It's sad because even Kohli was a beast for a period of time and now he's a shell of himself. The team didn't use him properly even then by giving him support with proper bowlers.

 

This is what's missing. An inform batsman gives you cushion for one extra bowler. Same with in form bowler.

 

But the team picks seniors over form every single time.

[Need4Speed]

The mindset change need to start with BCCI and TM..in vision,thought process and selections(including state boards) then it will pass to the players..

 

[neel roy]

We lost 2003 final as we messed up after choosing to bowl after winning the toss

We lost 2023 WTC Final in same way

We lost 2023 WC Final because we tampered unnecessarily with the pitch

 

If we would have won the above  we would have same number of ICC ODI trophies as Aus..simple