Operation sindoor

[MechEng]

6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Indeed it was opportunity of a lifetime.

If US seriously aids and equips Paxtan like in Cold war era we would have a lot of trouble on our hands.

 

If that seriously happens, then the next war will not be India vs Pakistan but actually India vs the USA.

 

Pakistan will become a complete proxy state of America like how Indian soldiers fought for the British Empire in both world wars.

[coffee_rules]

Going by how Israel is paying for an extended war, any further escalation from India beyond May 10, would have left India more bruised and battered that India needs to prepare for. USA would have backed Pakistan even further 

[BacktoCricaddict]

20 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Going by how Israel is paying for an extended war, any further escalation from India beyond May 10, would have left India more bruised and battered that India needs to prepare for. USA would have backed Pakistan even further 

And the only reason for this is that Pak borders Iran and they want access?

[Lord]

10 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And the only reason for this is that Pak borders Iran and they want access?

 

yes they want to attack Iran from Nur Khan 

[rangeelaraja]

42 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Going by how Israel is paying for an extended war, any further escalation from India beyond May 10, would have left India more bruised and battered that India needs to prepare for. USA would have backed Pakistan even further 

Not true. Iran has an oil economy ( even though it is sanctioned ). They lack Israel’s technology - but they are not poor and resource starved like Pak not to be able to sustain a long war. 
 

Pak doenst have the resource wherewithal to sustain a war. China will not give anything for free no matter what impression is given. 

[coffee_rules]

30 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And the only reason for this is that Pak borders Iran and they want access?

Most of Israeli jets flying over Iran are being refueled in air by US airplanes operating in Pak airbases or in the Arabian Sea 

[rangeelaraja]

10 hours ago, mishra said:

I am convinced that USA will punish us if we severely punish Pakistan. You must break Pakistan from Inside. You never know how China will react post Munir Trump dinner. Unlike others, I firmly believe that real reason for Immy to be in prison because he questioned CPEC 

India was not “ punished “ when it broke Pak in 1971, when it was aligned with USSR, and Pak was an ally of US. 
 

India is now a “ strategic partner “ and ally that buys billions of dollars of US Military hardware every year. So “ punishment” is out of question. India may upset some plans ruthless pursuing national security in its neighborhood and that’s okay. 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Most of Israeli jets flying over Iran are being refueled in air by US airplanes operating in Pak airbases or in the Arabian Sea 

But they can refuel from Iraqi or Saudi airspace as well. Both countries too are under US control.

 

Story isnt as simple, Pakistan is holding US nukes. Having airbases in a guarantee of its protection. Pak dont have Nukes of its own.

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

India was not “ punished “ when it broke Pak in 1971, when it was aligned with USSR, and Pak was an ally of US. 
 

India is now a “ strategic partner “ and ally that buys billions of dollars of US Military hardware every year. So “ punishment” is out of question. India may upset some plans ruthless pursuing national security in its neighborhood and that’s okay. 

Who says India wasnt punished.

It was just delayed because then USSR was the bigger competitor for US.

USSR backed Communists blew away US in Vietnam...giving them the most humiliating defeat of their lifetime.

 

When USSR succumb to its defeat in Afghanistan, then India's punishment became severe, leading to insurgency in Pakistan & then in Kashmir.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I am hearing this from the day I was born, and I am an old dude.

All credit goes to Amreeka.

 

They have ensured Middle East always remain in flames...so that they can keep on extracting oil as per their will.

 

Saudi, Syria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE all have succumb to US might....Iraq was put to his place by Bush...now Iran is the next target. 

[rangeelaraja]

48 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Who says India wasnt punished.

It was just delayed because then USSR was the bigger competitor for US.

USSR backed Communists blew away US in Vietnam...giving them the most humiliating defeat of their lifetime.

 

When USSR succumb to its defeat in Afghanistan, then India's punishment became severe, leading to insurgency in Pakistan & then in Kashmir.

 

 

It isn’t as simple as you are putting it. 
 

Pak borders Afghan and Iran. 2 countries of huge geopolitical interest to US. So Pak has taken advantage of this, being an errands boy for the West in the words of their own Defense Minister ( we have always known this ) … so in the bargain they have asks for weapons and tech and asked to be given a free pass for a few things … which they have used against us.  It doesn’t mean that West did it to “ punish “ us implicitly. 
 

we have failed to act decisively when we could several times in our history when we had our boots on Pakistan’s throat and we have ourselves to blame only. 
 

Pak has been way better at manipulating the west to get freebies and concessions … we haven’t.
 

We don’t need it but we have not been very smart and decisive in our actions. 

Edited June 20, 2025 by rangeelaraja

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

It isn’t as simple as you are putting it. 
 

Pak borders Afghan and Iran. 2 countries of huge geopolitical interest to US. So Pak has taken advantage of this, being an errands boy for the West in the words of their own Defense Minister ( we have always known this ) … so in the bargain they have asks for weapons and tech and asked to be given a free pass for a few things … which they have used against us.  It doesn’t mean that West did it to “ punish “ us implicitly. 
 

we have failed to act decisively when we could several times in our history when we had our boots on Pakistan’s throat and we have ourselves to blame only. 
 

Pak has been way better at manipulating the west to get freebies and concessions … we haven’t.
 

We don’t need it but we have not been very smart and decisive in our actions. 

Afghan used to be strategically important when they were bordering USSR.

Not sure if they still have the same value, as there are Central Asian countries in between Afg & Russia. Poppy cultivation too is now non existent in Taliban 2.0. They simply want to be left alone.

 

I agree that our reluctance to escalate a war has been our biggest bottleneck. We need to show territorial gains, just striking at terrorist bases and runways arent enough. Pak should feel the loss of land.

 

When we were expecting a call from Pak DGMO, India should have used its Navy and bombarded Karachi port...or should have grabbed some territory in exchange. Those losses are visible and cant be hidden by using Information Warfare.

Edited June 20, 2025 by singhvivek141

[Lone Wolf]

So PAF possessed US delivered AIM 120 BVR Missiles during even 26/11 attacks... WTF man.  Took us 15 years to catch up with them..and even now Meteor isn't integrated to Rafales.

 

[singhvivek141]

22 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

So PAF possessed US delivered AIM 120 BVR Missiles during even 26/11 attacks... WTF man.  Took us 15 years to catch up with them..and even now Meteor isn't integrated to Rafales.

 

Well, we have one solace that our military production is moving towards indigenous.
Once that happens, we would be able to export arms to countries in South East Asia and other countries who are under war. Military production will create a separate economy which will propel the money into defense research.

Chinese public are now on roads, protesting against CCP for selling arms to Pak at a cheaper rate, when the common public is slogging for hours to earn livelihood. Sooner or later, US too will face the heat, they too are seeing economic slowdown. 

India is also exploring Safran options and GE is delaying the engines. Maybe talk to Russia as well for their fighter engines, they will be willing to pay. Once our Kaveri engine program achieves success then it will be easier to optimize it further.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

India is also exploring Safran options and GE is delaying the engines.

Tejas MK1A and more importantly Tejas MK2 will be dead and buried or delayed by a decade if US refuses to supply Ge404 in case of MK1 and more important GE414 for MK2 our 4.5gen jets.

 

Safran and Rolls Royce are being explored for AMCA for good reason.

 

Kaveri is still far far away.  

 

India still has a long way to being self reliant and we don't have a lot of time looking at how things are going on.

Edited June 20, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

Frenchies turned out to be biggest Chindi Chor of them all...what were our planners doing all this while is bigger question 

 

[mishra]

I don’t know if people here are following our engine program Kaveri. Gen 2 is 82KN thrust, least in volume but highest in weight. What it means is weight to thrust ratio is poor simply because poor alloy to make engine. Effectively thats how close Kaveri has reached in delivering the engine fit for purpose. After that we can have you every thing made in India and made by India.

 

Keeping fingers crossed. 

[ravishingravi]

Ex RAW chief under Congress

 

 

[coffee_rules]

16 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Not true. Iran has an oil economy ( even though it is sanctioned ). They lack Israel’s technology - but they are not poor and resource starved like Pak not to be able to sustain a long war. 
 

Pak doenst have the resource wherewithal to sustain a war. China will not give anything for free no matter what impression is given. 

 

 

I trust the Armed forces chiefs , DGMO who took the decision which is rational and not based on high emotions after the Air strikes. Pak may not have the resources, but China and US will not allow it go down without a bloody fight. With 1.4 billion, Indian sid casualties will look a lot more. 

[Lone Wolf]

Should be mass produced.  Distribute it  to licenced gun holders along border states.

 

65k per rifle is dirt cheap man