Final Solution to Pakistan ?

[Alam_dar]

On 5/16/2025 at 12:41 PM, Mariyam said:

But the sad reality is that Pakistanis are the worst proponents of the deen they claim to love so much. A lot of the bad rep that Islam and by extension Muslims get in the West is a direct result of the behaviour of Pakistanis there.

 

In my view, though, the deeper issue lies within the religion itself rather than just Pakistani culture.

I don't see the Afghan Taliban, Arab groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, or Chechen fighters as any better than the religious extremists found in Pakistan.
The same radical behavior can be observed among fanatics in Bangladesh as well.

Pakistan once had a rich Sufi heritage, but that has significantly diminished since the rise of Wahhabi influence in the region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

12 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

In my view, though, the deeper issue lies within the religion itself rather than just Pakistani culture.

I don't see the Afghan Taliban, Arab groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, or Chechen fighters as any better than the religious extremists found in Pakistan.
The same radical behavior can be observed among fanatics in Bangladesh as well.

Pakistan once had a rich Sufi heritage, but that has significantly diminished since the rise of Wahhabi influence in the region.

You're the expert on Pakistan, but in my view the biggest culprit is their Army.

They simply created a fanatism in the minds of avg Pakistanis by showing the fear of India (or if I say bluntly, Hindus).
This fearmongering gave the vaccum to Mulla-Maulana's to spread the Wahabism in Pakistan, primarily Saudi, and Pakistan turned into a mercenary for the West to stay in their good books and use it as a deterrent against Hindus.

This fear became so big, that Pakistan thwarted any attempts by India to maintain peace and collaboration. Agra Summit and Lahore Bus travel were key examples when India was genuinely interested.

Last 10-11 years, India has moved ahead. It is finding new allies in the East Asia and economically growing at a steady pace. But Pakistan is stuck in the same mindset and a growing India is increasing their fear by multiple folds. Instead of looking inwards and developing their own country, they're spending loans from IMF is nurturing the terror groups to fight India. Not to mention, the Army generals, they're grabbing the lands and are purchasing properties in the West to live a lavish life post retirement. There is no one, I repeat, no one currently is in power in Pakistan who actually cares about the topics like economy, development, education, employment. These all seems to be alien concept for their public.

In real life, such people will become henchman for the others easily. Pakistan has become the same for US and China.

[Teengunalagaan]

On 5/17/2025 at 11:29 AM, ravishingravi said:

10 trn number doesn't mean anything. India at ppp is already 17 trn. At 10 trn nominal it's still a poor country. 

 

On 5/17/2025 at 12:50 PM, Lone Wolf said:

It actually means that India's Industrialization and manufacturing phase would have not just started but actually booming successfully. 

 

From there on it's a chain reaction and nothing would stop us.  This is the critical time period to slow us down or stop it from happening.

 

Hence it's critical for G2 and world power to slow us down or tie us whichever way it can.

 

Agree @Lone Wolf, when you are at 10+tn economy, it's not just a number, your economy is more integrated with world powers, not matter how much bravado Trump showed, at the end of the day he had bend over backwards to China.

 

Even though major companies in the world are diversifying their supply chain due to geopolitical risk, that doesn't mean they are abandoning China, don't underestimate the lobbying these companies would do on behalf of China because their own interests interlinked with China. 

 

Lot of naysayers keep mocking make in India as assemble in India...

 

Well here is the real make in India, designed in India, saved lives in India... nobody is a born athlete, everyone learns to crawl first before they even begin to walk.

 

 

[mishra]

I think I underestimated Chinese Diplomacy. But their plan that they just needs few allies and whole world order will come crashing down is only progressing. 

 

Implemented process that draw up resources from Russia/Africa/ME/Latin America, then Supply same resources to Chinese factories and then Sell that to rest of world including India using Western Financial System meaning West gets the wealth is not going to last very Long (max a decade or two decades).

 

So a war is coming. Brace yourself

[Mariyam]

16 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

In my view, though, the deeper issue lies within the religion itself rather than just Pakistani culture.

I don't see the Afghan Taliban, Arab groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, or Chechen fighters as any better than the religious extremists found in Pakistan.
The same radical behavior can be observed among fanatics in Bangladesh as well.

Pakistan once had a rich Sufi heritage, but that has significantly diminished since the rise of Wahhabi influence in the region.

 

Was speaking specifically about Muslim migrants in the West.

 

Iranian migrants have assimilated fairly well in the USA.

Ditto the Syrian/Lebanese migrants in the USA.

Algerians also get along with the French.

Pakistani migrants have ghettoized themselves in the UK. Even Spain. Not part of the national mainstream.

Indian Muslim migrants have assimilated to some degree.

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

Was speaking specifically about Muslim migrants in the West.

 

Iranian migrants have assimilated fairly well in the USA.

Ditto the Syrian/Lebanese migrants in the USA.

Algerians also get along with the French.

Pakistani migrants have ghettoized themselves in the UK. Even Spain. Not part of the national mainstream.

Indian Muslim migrants have assimilated to some degree.

 

 

Lebanon and Syria have long had significant non-Muslim influences, especially with large Christian communities. But over time, especially in Syria, things have changed. Extremist ideologies, like those of ISIS, have gained ground and become more visible. Lebanon, on the other hand, has remained relatively free from such extremism.

Iran presents a different case. Many Iranians have harbored deep resentment toward their regime for decades, and the cultural climate there is shaped by its own unique history and political struggles.

Unfortunately, Pakistan took a sharp turn toward radicalization, especially during the Afghan war and under the leadership of Zia-ul-Haq, a hardline Islamist. These events pushed Pakistan further into religious extremism compared to many other Muslim-majority countries.

 

War breeds radicalization, and Pakistan’s prolonged conflict with India, especially framed in religious terms, further accelerated this Islamic hardlining.

 

Indian Muslims have generally been in a better position socially and culturally than their Pakistani counterparts.

 

However, it seems to me that a significant portion of the Muslim population in India are moving to marginalized, ghettoized communities today. It is unfortunate that differences are increasing, instead of decreasing. I wish Muslims, all over the world, become more secularized instead of becoming more radicalized. 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

On 5/20/2025 at 12:56 PM, Alam_dar said:

 

In my view, though, the deeper issue lies within the religion itself rather than just Pakistani culture.

I don't see the Afghan Taliban, Arab groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, or Chechen fighters as any better than the religious extremists found in Pakistan.
The same radical behavior can be observed among fanatics in Bangladesh as well.

Pakistan once had a rich Sufi heritage, but that has significantly diminished since the rise of Wahhabi influence in the region.

 

 

This kind of radical Islam came from India - Deobandi movement from the colonial period in the nineteenth century. Ever since the Sharia was codified by Alamgir, this was the official version of Islamic rules that even the British codified. The school of Deobandis have spread across all of South Asia - India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and BD. Extreme forms of Deobandis have been preached and practiced in Pakistan and Afghaniitan. This is one of the reasons radical Islam was originiated from India and has spread across the world.

 

https://items.ssrc.org/after-september-11/traditionalist-islamic-activism-deoband-tablighis-and-talibs/

 

"

At the same time, the `ulama of the JUI were engaged with the madrasas that furthered Deobandi teachings. From the 1980s on, the number of seminaries in Pakistan soared, used as a tool of conservative influence by the military dictator Ziaul Haq (in power 1977-1988), who was, in fact, particularly sympathetic to the Deobandi approach.. The seminaries were not only a resource in domestic politics but at times found themselves engaged in a kind of “surrogate” competition between Saudis and Iranis, as each patronized religious institutions likely to support their side.23 It was in this atmosphere of politics and education that the origin of the Taliban is to be found.

The surge in the number of madrasas in the 1980s coincided with the influx of some three million Afghan refugees, for whose boys the madrasas located along the frontier frequently provided the only available education. One school in particular, the Madrasa Haqqaniya, in Akora Kathak near Peshawar, trained many of the top Taliban leaders. These sometime students (talib; plural, taliban) were shaped by many of the core Deobandi reformist causes, all of which were further encouraged by Arab volunteers in Afghanistan. These causes, as noted above, included rigorous concern with fulfilling rituals; opposition to custom laden ceremonies like weddings and pilgrimage to shrines, along with practices associated with the Shi`a minority; and a focus on the seclusion of women as a central symbol of a morally ordered society. Theirs was, according to Ahmed Rashid, a long-time observer, “an extreme form of Deobandism, which was being preached by Pakistani Islamic parties in Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan.”24 This focus on a fairly narrow range of shari’a law, which emphasized personal behavior and ritual, was something the Taliban shared with other Deobandi movements, even while the severity of the Taliban approach made them unique.

"

 

 

Edited May 22, 2025 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

On 5/21/2025 at 5:03 AM, Mariyam said:

Was speaking specifically about Muslim migrants in the West.

 

Iranian migrants have assimilated fairly well in the USA.

Ditto the Syrian/Lebanese migrants in the USA.

Algerians also get along with the French.

Pakistani migrants have ghettoized themselves in the UK. Even Spain. Not part of the national mainstream.

Indian Muslim migrants have assimilated to some degree.

 

 

Not the ones who came post 2000s. The ME refugees in the Syrian/Libyan refugees  are pretty conservative and refuse to accept the western laws. They demand Sharia Laws in USA/West. The Somalian refugees in MN, USA are notorious for demanding the preservation of conservative cutlure, even in USA. They want to ban joggers in parks where their kids are playing (as goras wear progressive outfits while jogging), one taxi driver from the airport refused to serve passengers who get duty-free alcohol as it is haram. They even have reprsentation in township/state and Congress - Ilhan Omar being an infamous one.

[ravishingravi]

I second Sushant. Over a period of time, he has read them right.  This punjabi understands the scum we are dealing with. All this hindu nuance has muddied the water unnecessarily. Punjabi jatt / Rajput plus Islam plus incest has produced generations of retards that cant be undone. To treat them as human beings is insane b

 

A

[ravishingravi]

Bit by bit

 

 

[ravishingravi]

 

[ravishingravi]

 

[ravishingravi]

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There is no final solution to PAK. At the highest stages of escalation , they can match us because they have a nuclear arsenal that is comparable to ours. 

 

Even their lack of strategic depth won't stop mutually assured destruction. 

 

It's a reality that Indians need to accept.  

 

And US/NATO need to box Iran in and they need PAK establishment for that. 

 

And the Chinese will want to keep India under restraints and they are willing to rush military equipment to PAK at short notice as they have displayed even recently. 

 

When you are strategically important enough to the 2 biggest economic powers in the world, there is little we can do.

 

 

 

 

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There is no final solution to PAK. At the highest stages of escalation , they can match us because they have a nuclear arsenal that is comparable to ours. 

 

Even their lack of strategic depth won't stop mutually assured destruction. 

 

It's a reality that Indians need to accept.  

 

And US/NATO need to box Iran in and they need PAK establishment for that. 

 

And the Chinese will want to keep India under restraints and they are willing to rush military equipment to PAK at short notice as they have displayed even recently. 

 

When you are strategically important enough to the 2 biggest economic powers in the world, there is little we can do.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Keep watching this space. 

[singhvivek141]

22 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There is no final solution to PAK. At the highest stages of escalation , they can match us because they have a nuclear arsenal that is comparable to ours. 

 

Even their lack of strategic depth won't stop mutually assured destruction. 

 

It's a reality that Indians need to accept.  

 

And US/NATO need to box Iran in and they need PAK establishment for that. 

 

And the Chinese will want to keep India under restraints and they are willing to rush military equipment to PAK at short notice as they have displayed even recently. 

 

When you are strategically important enough to the 2 biggest economic powers in the world, there is little we can do.

 

 

 

 

Don't think it's true.

India usually under reports it's strength, India perhaps will have 1.5x or 2x Nuclear weapons than Pak.
Also, Indian missile technology is more equipped to use tactical nuclear weapons. We even did the test of Nuclear Fusion test in 1998. The ability of Pakistan to operate these nuclear weapons are untested (though they might be able to do under Chinese instructions).

Iran can rise again if the civil war within Iran helps to topple Khomeini...the avg Iranians aren't radical. Once that happens, Iran-Afg will become a corridor bypassing Pak.

[kepler37b]

On 5/20/2025 at 10:26 PM, Alam_dar said:

 

In my view, though, the deeper issue lies within the religion itself rather than just Pakistani culture.

I don't see the Afghan Taliban, Arab groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda, or Chechen fighters as any better than the religious extremists found in Pakistan.
The same radical behavior can be observed among fanatics in Bangladesh as well.

Pakistan once had a rich Sufi heritage, but that has significantly diminished since the rise of Wahhabi influence in the region.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahmadiya sect is the least fundamentalist. Nehru said that this sect is "native" islam. These wahabis have pescecuted and tortured them.

[Nikhil_cric]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Don't think it's true.

India usually under reports it's strength, India perhaps will have 1.5x or 2x Nuclear weapons than Pak.
Also, Indian missile technology is more equipped to use tactical nuclear weapons. We even did the test of Nuclear Fusion test in 1998. The ability of Pakistan to operate these nuclear weapons are untested (though they might be able to do under Chinese instructions).

Iran can rise again if the civil war within Iran helps to topple Khomeini...the avg Iranians aren't radical. Once that happens, Iran-Afg will become a corridor bypassing Pak.

Tbf, we have no idea about the true size of their  arsenal either .

 

And even if their delivery systems are unproven , the Chinese can easily provide them with that as well. 

 

 

[ravishingravi]

Another thing is Pakistan won't die. UK would become Pakistan proxy. Very interesting to see how this take over happens. 

[Chaos]

Pooksitan needs to be nuked n erased.