Is the WI's dominant win over SL a good sign for their cricket future?

[BacktoCricaddict]

One of the most unfortunate aspects of cricket since the 1990s is the steady decline of WI cricket, particularly tests. 

 

This test, though, saw some real steel from the Calypsos. Steady, grinding batting followed by a Kemar Roach special (didn't realize he had so many wkts, just hit 300 today). Have they turned a corner? Or are they just flattering to deceive again like they did when Kyle Mayers emerged against BD?

 

 

[nitinbwj]

May be but SL are awful

[nevada]

6 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

One of the most unfortunate aspects of cricket since the 1990s is the steady decline of WI cricket, particularly tests. 

 

This test, though, saw some real steel from the Calypsos. Steady, grinding batting followed by a Kemar Roach special (didn't realize he had so many wkts, just hit 300 today). Have they turned a corner? Or are they just flattering to deceive again like they did when Kyle Mayers emerged against BD?

 

 

WI do come up with a stunning performance here and there in test cricket. In Australia, they defeated the hosts in a pink ball test. I think the test players have passion and pride, unlike the LOI specialists who are basically auditioning for league contracts. 

[express bowling]

WI pace attack is good in test matches.

 

Roach .. Av 26.8 .. 300 wickets

Shamar J .. Av 21.9 .  Genuine fast

Seales .. Av 25.7

Alzarri J .. Av 33.2 .. Genuine fast

 

They are being let down by their club level batting. Hardly anyone averages above 30 even.

 

If they can solve this issue, they can be much better.

[Lone Wolf]

WI can show flashes of brilliance when their Pacers fire.

 

That being said WI have often dominated Asian sides barring India off late at their home.

 

 

[diga]

 good pace attack built by the coach...hope they find some good batsmen too

PS: can't deny the passion Sammy has for westindies cricket 

[rollingstoned]

12 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

One of the most unfortunate aspects of cricket since the 1990s is the steady decline of WI cricket, particularly tests. 

 

This test, though, saw some real steel from the Calypsos. Steady, grinding batting followed by a Kemar Roach special (didn't realize he had so many wkts, just hit 300 today). Have they turned a corner? Or are they just flattering to deceive again like they did when Kyle Mayers emerged against BD?

 

 

Nope too many structural problems. What you saw until the 90s was an aberration that was possible only because of County cricket which was their finishing school & a spirit of grievance coming from a place of colonial injustices that is not possible to sustain indefinitely. MMHS made good posts about the former in the green ghetto forum. Even pooks benefitted from this which was why they suddenly declined from the 90s onwards with cap on foreign players, it's not just about regulating ball tampering and neutral umps.

[Norman]

Pakistan and West Indies will never be decent Test sides again. That ship has sailed long back. They don't have the required money, domestic setup or economies to sustain top quality red ball cricket.

 

Even Sri Lanka has a better chance thanks to their school cricket system and better GDP per capita. 

[putrevus]

Sammy was very good captain , now he is proving he is very good coach too.

[putrevus]

27 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Nope too many structural problems. What you saw until the 90s was an aberration that was possible only because of County cricket which was their finishing school & a spirit of grievance coming from a place of colonial injustices that is not possible to sustain indefinitely. MMHS made good posts about the former in the green ghetto forum. Even pooks benefitted from this which was why they suddenly declined from the 90s onwards with cap on foreign players, it's not just about regulating ball tampering and neutral umps.

You are giving too much credit to county cricket, if they were such great finishing school, why were England so putrid then.

 

Pakistani idiots think they were best in world in 1970-90s, they were never best team but they benefitted from home cooked umpiring and ball tampering.

[rollingstoned]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are giving too much credit to county cricket, if they were such great finishing school, why were England so putrid then.

 

Pakistani idiots think they were best in world in 1970-90s, they were never best team but they benefitted from home cooked umpiring and ball tampering.

Having good County cricket by itself is not enough but it is necessary. They had a talent issue but that doesn't negate the great experience it used to be for overseas players because of its quality. 

Pooks weren't absolute best but they are much farther away from even that level now. 

[putrevus]

30 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Having good County cricket by itself is not enough but it is necessary. They had a talent issue but that doesn't negate the great experience it used to be for overseas players because of its quality. 

Pooks weren't absolute best but they are much farther away from even that level now. 

NZ had so many players in country cricket in 1980s but this current NZ team of last 10 years is their best team in history.

 

WI had unprecedented number of fast bowling talents coming thru during that period.All of them tall, express and most of them would be leading the bowling attacks of other teams.They never matched those bowling talents with batting talent produced even in 1970s.

 

Even now they are producing better bowlers than batsmen.

 

Pujara played country cricket the most of any Indian batsman but he still struggled against England.

 

Majid Khan with his 30 plus avg is considered a great batsman by Pakistanis that should say it all about them.

 

Farook Engineer played for Lancashire during the period would you classify him as great or even good.

 

Effect of county cricket is very much overstated IMO.

 

 

Edited June 29 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

NZ had so many players in country cricket in 1980s but this current NZ team of last 10 years is their best team in history.

 

WI had unprecedented number of fast bowling coming thru during that period.All of them tall, express and most of them would be leading the bowling attacks of other teams.They never matched those bowling talents with batting talent produced even in 1970s.

 

Even now they are producing better bowlers than batsmen.

 

Pujara played country cricket the most of any Indian batsman but he still struggled against England.

 

Majid Khan with his 30 plus avg is considered a great batsman by Pakistanis that should say it all about them.

 

Farook Engineer played for Lancashire during the period would you classify him as great or even good.

 

Effect of county cricket is very much overstated.

You are trying to work backwards from the outcome and form a premise. You can have a great team without a good domestic system and a good domestic system without having a great team. One doesn't negate the other and they're not mutually exclusive. It is not that hard to comprehend frankly, we have had this discussion before. 

 

Yes those talents in WI all existed but great to good talent also needs the right pipeline and process to properly express itself. You can see the effect it had on them which they themselves confess to eg likes of Imran khan, Inzamam ul haq, Allan donald etc. Batting generally needs greater coaching input and process driven approach than bowling which can be more instinctive, you will see minnow teams bowl and field decently but take a long time to produce decent batsmen for this reason. 

 

Pujara played for one of the lesser teams in the twilight of his career. Axar patel also speaks well of the time he spent there which helped him evolve. Zaheer became a different bowler at the end of his career after playing there. 

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

You are trying to work backwards from the outcome and form a premise. You can have a great team without a good domestic system and a good domestic system without having a great team. One doesn't negate the other and they're not mutually exclusive. It is not that hard to comprehend frankly, we have had this discussion before. 

 

Yes those talents in WI all existed but great to good talent also needs the right pipeline and process to properly express itself. You can see the effect it had on them which they themselves confess to eg likes of Imran khan, Inzamam ul haq, Allan donald etc. Batting generally needs greater coaching input and process driven approach than bowling which can be more instinctive, you will see minnow teams bowl and field decently but take a long time to produce decent batsmen for this reason. 

 

Pujara played for one of the lesser teams in the twilight of his career. Axar patel also speaks well of the time he spent there which helped him evolve. Zaheer became a different bowler at the end of his career after playing there. 

I am not denying county cricket helping something but it all boils down to talent.

 

 

[rollingstoned]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am not denying county cricket helping something but it all boils down to talent.

 

 

Neither raw talent nor a good system by themselves are sufficient. They are both necessary though in differing quantities barring exceptional circumstances for a generational team. 

[G_B_]

This is more a sign that asian cricket is in the dumps.

 

Back in the 90s and 00s Pak India and SL were good teams. 

[Lone Wolf]

Excellent post on Lahiru Udara who played a marathon inns yesterday in Antigua with SL battling with so many injuries in the squad.

This guy and Sahan dude the skipper playing against India A will cause some problems to us in SL next

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

2-0 confirmed in WI looks like@Gollum  Bobby back as captain and this is a very lame ass squad.

 

Brook and England will massacre this lot

 

[Tillu]

Why hasn't SL declared on Day 5 after lunch break?

[Tillu]

SL are scared that WI will chase their 290+ total in 2 sessions and are still batting in the 2nd session.