When will we learn-78mph bowlers have no impact at top level!

[coffee_rules]

Why don't you have a 'Never Ending Thread' for your pace bowling rants?

[beetle]

Why don't you have a 'Never Ending Thread' for your pace bowling rants?

:agree:

[Clarke]

How many Philanders in world cricket have we seen?

You don't need a million of them, one or two are enough. Besides, there's hardly any difference in the number of Philanders in the world vs no of genuine quicks in India.

[vvvslaxman]

Vernon does hurry the batsmen from time to time. He extracts a lot out of the pitch. Much like how Tstso extracts bounce at 125 to 130ks.

[div]

Vernon does hurry the batsmen from time to time. He extracts a lot out of the pitch. Much like how Tstso extracts bounce at 125 to 130ks.

true..Indian trundlers have weak shoulders.

[adi B]

Who is a 78 mph bowler? Perhaps PK was but even at that speed he did fairly well in England and WI. BK is more 81-82, Ishant at 84-85 when in good rhythm and 81-82 otherwise Looked at last last 6 home tests (4 vs Aus and 2 vs WI) for speeds of Oshant and BK (from CI hawkeye), number in brackets is the top speed in the innings by the bowler BK - 81 (88), 80 (85), 82 (87), 81 (86), 81 (84), 82 (85), 82 (83), 82 (86), 80 (84), 81 (85), 80 (82) Ishant - 83 (87), 81 (85), 82 (87), 81 (85), 82 (89), 81 (85), 82 (86), 83 (85) In SA as well, none of our bowlers bowled 78 mph :)

zak was trundling at 123-128 for most part of the day

[vvvslaxman]

true..Indian trundlers have weak shoulders.

They hardly use shoulders. They focus all the energy in throwing hands in all direction, high jumping, long jumping. When you see Steyn , Johnson delivering you can see their vein popping from forehands. From our side Sreesanth is one guy who uses every bit of juice in his body to bowl quick. Since his seam position is perfect he is quicker than say guy who is 5k faster with bad seam position.

[King Tendulkar]

Philander often operates entire spells-including opening spells- at 78-80mph range. Yes, he can 'crank it' to 85mph at times but he is closer to Unadkat's pace than Ishant's. Also, your OP is incorrect. India does not have 'good medium pace trundlers with swing and accuracy', India has invariably produced two genuine fast bowlers who've made it at international level ( Kapil & Srinath) and rest all have been average (at best) medium pacers, with very mediocre accuracy & some swing. None of the Indian trundlers- i repeat, none of them- were capable of bowling at 78mph and hitting any dollar(Canadian) size coin on the pitch six balls in a row. There have been bowlers who've bowled at 78mph and not just succeeded but dominated. Philander often takes truckloads of wickets bowling at 78mph, pitching at the same spot and getting a 'wobble' to the ball. Mohammed Asif barely cracked 80mph even when he tried but could hit any spot on the pitch at will practically and swing the ball prodigiously. he destroyed sides. Curtly Ambrose, at the ripe old age of 36 or 37 failed to break 80mph against England, yet utterly & totally dominated them to end up with something ridiculous like 20+ wickets at 13 or 14 average. Trundling at 78mph can make you a world dominator. Trouble is, nothing is a 'magic bullet' of bowling success, unless you are Murali and can spin the ball a mile both ways and pitch it anywhere at will. Bowling is a complex art & slow or medium pace true greats are just as hard to find as true pace bowling greats. Speed can be handy. At times it can get you wickets but it is nowhere as important as your speed crusade has seemed like. We've seen plenty of bowlers who could bowl it lightning fast but never amounted to much more than mediocre or downright suck.

Firstly Philander is not a trundler, he bowls mid 80s for large spells. He does not bowl 78 mph! So this is nonsense. As for Ambrose o please!!!!!!!! The guy was one of the greatest fast bowlers of all time, who terrorised the worlds batsman. Mcgrath was also fast bowler. Dont cherry pick last 1 or 2 last years when they had slowed down and had good odd seires to make a case for trundlers. Ambrose on that tour was very very experiennced, also had a name and no doubts batsman played the name. He was on very seam friendly tracks v a pathetic batting line up which had many bunnies for him. Ambrose made himself ATG by fast bowling. He was so great that even when slowed down to low 80s could still be effective Yes need to be fast bwoer with skill. NO ONE SAYS DIFFERENT! Once that ball goes old, the 78 mph brigade are tootheless. Effective for 10 overs possibly(although faster skilled bowler will do even more), then toothless. While a fast bowler or ones with decent speeds can be a threat with 70 over ball.

[King Tendulkar]

Who is a 78 mph bowler? Perhaps PK was but even at that speed he did fairly well in England and WI. BK is more 81-82, Ishant at 84-85 when in good rhythm and 81-82 otherwise Looked at last last 6 home tests (4 vs Aus and 2 vs WI) for speeds of Oshant and BK (from CI hawkeye), number in brackets is the top speed in the innings by the bowler BK - 81 (88), 80 (85), 82 (87), 81 (86), 81 (84), 82 (85), 82 (83), 82 (86), 80 (84), 81 (85), 80 (82) Ishant - 83 (87), 81 (85), 82 (87), 81 (85), 82 (89), 81 (85), 82 (86), 83 (85) In SA as well, none of our bowlers bowled 78 mph :)

Zak in 2nd test was bowling under 80. Accuate, swinging it both ways with old and new ball but redundnat cos of pace In pomp zak was superb, would make all time india 11. He had all that accuracy, swing etc but all in mid 80s etc. Speed was vital ingredient to his success, why deny it?

[King Tendulkar]

You don't need a million of them' date=' one or two are enough. Besides, there's hardly any difference in the number of Philanders in the world vs no of genuine quicks in India.[/quote'] There are more philanders in world. Cos fast bowlers are rare. Thats why when other countries get these rare gems, they look after them like precious stones. If rough gem they do all they can to polish them. While we dont do no attempt to polish these rare (even rarer and more precious in india) gems. We should play, groom and back them. Instead......

[Silva]

I think if you bowl on average less than 135 the only way you can be successful is if you have Philander type accuracy. Look at Philanders pitch map and beehive placment compared to zaheer khan and see how regularly Philander bowls so close to the top of off stump compared to our trundlers. Our medium fast bowlers don't have that accuracy. So only play a medium fast bowler if he's extremely accurate. But those kind of bowlers are more rare than ones that bowl 135+ on average. Even in india.

[Deleted_User_1]

Philander often operates entire spells-including opening spells- at 78-80mph range. Yes, he can 'crank it' to 85mph at times but he is closer to Unadkat's pace than Ishant's. Also, your OP is incorrect. India does not have 'good medium pace trundlers with swing and accuracy', India has invariably produced two genuine fast bowlers who've made it at international level ( Kapil & Srinath) and rest all have been average (at best) medium pacers, with very mediocre accuracy & some swing. None of the Indian trundlers- i repeat, none of them- were capable of bowling at 78mph and hitting any dollar(Canadian) size coin on the pitch six balls in a row. There have been bowlers who've bowled at 78mph and not just succeeded but dominated. Philander often takes truckloads of wickets bowling at 78mph, pitching at the same spot and getting a 'wobble' to the ball. Mohammed Asif barely cracked 80mph even when he tried but could hit any spot on the pitch at will practically and swing the ball prodigiously. he destroyed sides. Curtly Ambrose, at the ripe old age of 36 or 37 failed to break 80mph against England, yet utterly & totally dominated them to end up with something ridiculous like 20+ wickets at 13 or 14 average. Trundling at 78mph can make you a world dominator. Trouble is, nothing is a 'magic bullet' of bowling success, unless you are Murali and can spin the ball a mile both ways and pitch it anywhere at will. Bowling is a complex art & slow or medium pace true greats are just as hard to find as true pace bowling greats. Speed can be handy. At times it can get you wickets but it is nowhere as important as your speed crusade has seemed like. We've seen plenty of bowlers who could bowl it lightning fast but never amounted to much more than mediocre or downright suck.

+++++++++++++ Trundling at high 70s can be successful if you are super accurate and can move the ball. McGrath did it towards the middle-end of his career.

[kubrickian]

Another rant about phassht bolling. :wall: Is this the 10000th thread you made here about the same subject ? If I come back here in another 20 years, seems as if there will be the same threads and replies here. :facepalm:

[fineleg]

Despite him being a donkey, I think Sreesanth had good potential. He wasted it, much like how L Sivaramakrishnan wasted his gift many years ago.

[adi B]

Despite him being a donkey' date=' I think Sreesanth had good potential. He wasted it, much like how L Sivaramakrishnan wasted his gift many years ago.[/quote'] donkey sree can be replaced by our captain mule dhoni..mule can bowl at a gentle,trundlers pace 75-80 mph,he should quit keeping and work on his bowling

[King Tendulkar]

+++++++++++++ Trundling at high 70s can be successful if you are super accurate and can move the ball. McGrath did it towards the middle-end of his career.

Mcgrath bowling high 70s in middle end of carrer. What you smoking?

[GolGappe]

Vernon has the luxury of having Steyn and Morkel in his side.

[veer]

Giraffe needs to be drug tested. This guy is inhumane. He runs in leisurely and without even silghtest of grimace hurling balls over 145k.

:cantstop::cantstop: seriously...

[Deleted_User_1]

Mcgrath bowling high 70s in middle end of carrer. What you smoking?

Go check some highlights from the 1999-00 India down under series. Many times he was bowling at 78-80 mph.

[maniac]

Mcgrath bowling high 70s in middle end of carrer. What you smoking?

I am not an advocate for tundlers but both Mcgrath and Pollock(in the most succesful phase of his career) or even Asif for the short amount of time were all bowlers in mid 70's to 80's. Lot of people forget but Ambrose was not fast either.Wasim could crank it up but when on song he would bowl low 80's too. Tundler by defintion is not because of lack of pace but for lack of skills.