Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Suhaan]

2 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

In the second innings, he too fizzled out. But he was top class in the first innings, should be the only one to start first test vs England to give the attack some experience.

Ishant shouldn't have been considered in the first place, I don't know quite a few here think he will do well here when he is clearly struggling to stay fit for last 2-3 years,if you want to attack he is not your man to start with,at most he acn hold one end up that too when batsmen decide not to take risk,he was good up till 2018,since then he has rolled back to pre 2015 Ishant

Time is ripe to introduce next lot,but given the reluctance of clown and boozing yesman we won't see changes even in bowling

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

What a time to bottle it by our pacers, that too in such perfect conditions. Even rookie pacers would've done better than what the three of them produced in the 4th innings. Once you fail at the biggest stages repeatedly, there is no scope of redemption.

 

If the three of them play together again, it will be a travesty. Ideally only one of them should play in the first 2-3 tests in England. 

Batsmen lost the game, not bowlers. 170 all out in good batting conditions. NZ has deep batting. 249 in first innings was a good score.

[ShoonyaSifar]

42 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Batsmen lost the game, not bowlers. 170 all out in good batting conditions. NZ has deep batting. 249 in first innings was a good score.

Where did you read me blaming bowlers for the loss?

 

Now to the questions I asked - could they have done better , especially the 2nd innings? Where was the intensity? 138 was not such a small total to give up so easily. Also because these bowlers themselves hardly score a run between themselves, they have to be much better than their counterparts

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Where did you read me blaming bowlers for the loss?

 

Now to the questions I asked - could they have done better , especially the 2nd innings? Where was the intensity? 138 was not such a small total to give up so easily. Also because these bowlers themselves hardly score a run between themselves, they have to be much better than their counterparts

Match was lost once team was all out at 170. There were no demons in the pitch. 138 was a nothing total as the pitch had eased out. Pitches in England do get better to bat on. You needed 250 target to make a game out of it or 200 to draw it.

[Redk84]

First test at the very least would want Bhuvi in for Jadeja. He can swing the ball and is consistent with line and length, can also hold a bat....forgetting the rest of the selection dilemma, that is the immediate change I'd make

 

Personally I would give Bumrah the first test to see if he reacts to the obvious pressure he is under, Shami deserves to keep his place. Ishant would keep for now also..

 

Siraj first option through underperformance from there

[ShoonyaSifar]

31 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Match was lost once team was all out at 170. There were no demons in the pitch. 138 was a nothing total as the pitch had eased out. Pitches in England do get better to bat on. You needed 250 target to make a game out of it or 200 to draw it.

So we should have surrendered and shown no intensity in bowling is what you re suggesting. Alright 

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Redk84 said:

First test at the very least would want Bhuvi in for Jadeja. He can swing the ball and is consistent with line and length, can also hold a bat....forgetting the rest of the selection dilemma, that is the immediate change I'd make

 

Personally I would give Bumrah the first test to see if he reacts to the obvious pressure he is under, Shami deserves to keep his place. Ishant would keep for now also..

 

Siraj first option through underperformance from there

 

Bhuvi isnt considered for fitness else would have played anyway

[Lord]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

So we should have surrendered and shown no intensity in bowling is what you re suggesting. Alright 

 

that seemed to be Kohli's attitude

 

at 44-2 with ball turning we could have applied pressure

[New guy]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Batsmen lost the game, not bowlers. 170 all out in good batting conditions. NZ has deep batting. 249 in first innings was a good score.

249 was NOT a good score on a complete green pitch pitch cloudy and  swinging conditions. No matter how many times you repeat it. Our pace bowlers took 1 wicket in 64 overs in those conditions

 

You say the target was 130, but without conceding the lead of 32, their target would be near 200

[New guy]

4 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Where did you read me blaming bowlers for the loss?

 

Now to the questions I asked - could they have done better , especially the 2nd innings? Where was the intensity? 138 was not such a small total to give up so easily. Also because these bowlers themselves hardly score a run between themselves, they have to be much better than their counterparts

Why cannot  bowlers be blamed, are they some sort of sacred cows. In first innings on a green wicket with complete cloudy and windy conditions ours fast bowlers took 1 wicket combined in 64 overs. In second innings 0 wickets in 45 overs

 

You can blame batting all you want but English conditions will always be low scoring and margins will be closer. If you dont take new ball wickets for 60. 70 overs, match is lost even if you make amazing comeback later Even un NZ series only ishant took new ball wickets (<40-50 over ball), bumrah took 1 in 4 innings and shami 0

[New guy]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Shami did well bro. Bumrah bombed it. Maybe match fitness ? Not sure. Ishant only plays one format. Chutiya salah. 

Shami is amazing with the old ball. However, our pacers taking 1 wicket combined in 64 overs, on a green pitch under cloudy and swinging condition is very poor. Match was already lost post that. if we still dont address new ball issue the same pattern will be followed

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, New guy said:

Shami is amazing with the old ball. However, our pacers taking 1 wicket combined in 64 overs, on a green pitch under cloudy and swinging condition is very poor. Match was already lost post that. if we still dont address new ball issue the same pattern will be followed

Ya. Bumrah is finished as odi bowler. He is a containment bowler. He should quit odi and just focus on tests and t20. 

 

I believe tests is his best format. He just needs to regain the swing he got prior to 2020. 

 

I believe in him but I truly and sincerely hope money and fame dint get to his head. If it did then we dont need him because we need hungry lions. Not rich primadonnas. 

[Lord]

33 minutes ago, New guy said:

249 was NOT a good score on a complete green pitch pitch cloudy and  swinging conditions. No matter how many times you repeat it. Our pace bowlers took 1 wicket in 64 overs in those conditions

 

You say the target was 130, but without conceding the lead of 32, their target would be near 200

 

It was not a green pitch.It was cloudy yes and this dukes swung after 12 overs.249 was a par score for these conditions

 

You won't beat a top team with 217 & 170 in too many conditions.Even in India it'll be tough.If batsmen get out for 100,you can't blame for conceding 150.They need something to bowl at.

 

Even in England 2018,we won the one time batsman stepped up and scored 300+. Same thing happened in Aus.

 

The bowlers have been very consistent in getting teams out for low scores.

 

That 1 in 64 became 4 in 70,same as NZ.

 

yes Siraj should play and will play now

[Redk84]

EDIT - ignore - you can't delete on this forum? :)

Edited June 25, 2021 by Redk84

[Hell Raiser]

We need a bowler like Deepak Chahar upfront who can utilize the conditions  take wickets upfront. Pace Bowling attack of Siraj, Shami, Chahar looks good for these conditions. Bumrah is out of form and we have had enough of Ishant. Time to try something new and most importantly "as per the conditions"

[vishalvirsingh]

On 6/25/2021 at 10:49 AM, Vilander said:

Siraj and deepak chahar with shami and prasidh might cut it. But unlikely. 

Agreed..that's a sure shot success attack.

[express bowling]

18 hours ago, Hell Raiser said:

We need a bowler like Deepak Chahar upfront who can utilize the conditions  take wickets upfront. 

 

 

One issue with Deepak Chahar for tests is that he is not known to sustain intensity if he bowls a lot of overs per day. Which is why he has a bowling average of 35 in F.C cricket.

 

He looks good when he bowls 3 overs upfront in T20s but bowling 20 to 25 overs a day with intensity is a different thing.

 

 

 

 

[New guy]

21 hours ago, Lord said:

 

It was not a green pitch.It was cloudy yes and this dukes swung after 12 overs.249 was a par score for these conditions

 

You won't beat a top team with 217 & 170 in too many conditions.Even in India it'll be tough.If batsmen get out for 100,you can't blame for conceding 150.They need something to bowl at.

 

Even in England 2018,we won the one time batsman stepped up and scored 300+. Same thing happened in Aus.

 

The bowlers have been very consistent in getting teams out for low scores.

 

That 1 in 64 became 4 in 70,same as NZ.

 

yes Siraj should play and will play now

Teh bowlers have been very consistent with OLD ball. You can keep ignoring that. However on NZ and English pitches by that time match is already lost

 

You say 249 was good score but if we didnt concede 32 runs lead match would have stgill been drawn. Yes you can poiunt to poor batting but not taking wickets with new ball will ALWAYS make you lose matches in England and NZ

 

The consistent bowlers have also been consistent at not taking wickets with new balls in NZ and England. Shami cannot buy a new ball wicket no matter how much he tries. And in these countries match is lost by then. Look at performance of every other country which does better here, including Pak, Sri Lanka and see how they do better with new ball in England 

 

 

[Lord]

1 hour ago, New guy said:

Teh bowlers have been very consistent with OLD ball. You can keep ignoring that. However on NZ and English pitches by that time match is already lost

 

You say 249 was good score but if we didnt concede 32 runs lead match would have stgill been drawn. Yes you can poiunt to poor batting but not taking wickets with new ball will ALWAYS make you lose matches in England and NZ

 

The consistent bowlers have also been consistent at not taking wickets with new balls in NZ and England. Shami cannot buy a new ball wicket no matter how much he tries. And in these countries match is lost by then. Look at performance of every other country which does better here, including Pak, Sri Lanka and see how they do better with new ball in England 

 

 

 

Yes I agree Siraj should come and maybe would come in now.

 

But 249 wasnt bad. We conceded lead because we made only 217.Even in NZ we made very low scores .Such totals put pressure on bowling and make them try extra hard.

 

These bowlers did take early wickets in most of innings in last England tour IIRC.Specially Bumrah and Ishant

 

Bhuvi is a big loss here.Thakur is not of same quality

[vishalvirsingh]

Prasidh ,avesh, shardul seem to be in contention of getting a game for sure.

 

Seems bumrah and ishant are being talked as under performing.

Bumrah is not at his best pace, line and length. 

Ishant is not a solution to future problems.

Avesh and Prasidh who ever is in better form could play.

 

Shammi shardul siraj and one pacer and Ashwin should play OR 4 pacers n hanuma as spin all rounder if it's wet conditions.

Siraj Shammi and prasidh shardul could be an option. Siraj and shardul swing and Shammi and prasidh will create pace n bounce.